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Photo by Josephine Flohr, Elephant at Camp, Namibia

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Josephine Flohr,
Elephant at Camp, Namibia



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  #106  
Old 12 Oct 2015
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Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
Maybe they actually like the GP450; maybe after taking a test ride even?
Possible, I suppose. Vide supra.
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  #107  
Old 12 Oct 2015
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Originally Posted by docsherlock View Post
Possible, I suppose. Vide supra.
CCM will still be at the stage of being able to sell every GP450 that they make; it could be a case of "manufacturing bikes to order", manufacturing them at a rate to match the orders.

Meanwhile, their marketing is low key - all to the good; they can concentrate on building bikes and not spending the budget on marketing hype.
CCM GP450 Adventure Motorcycle | eBay

Low key ads on ebay UK and test rides at biking events will keep the UK orders coming in for the time being and they have their overseas market also.
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  #108  
Old 13 Oct 2015
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Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
CCM will still be at the stage of being able to sell every GP450 that they make; it could be a case of "manufacturing bikes to order", manufacturing them at a rate to match the orders.

Meanwhile, their marketing is low key - all to the good; they can concentrate on building bikes and not spending the budget on marketing hype.
CCM GP450 Adventure Motorcycle | eBay

Low key ads on ebay UK and test rides at biking events will keep the UK orders coming in for the time being and they have their overseas market also.
$12,000 for a single and not one blessed with reputation for reliability, either.

I could buy a CB500X + the Rally Raid 3 kit and do a six month trip for that money

Insane.
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  #109  
Old 13 Oct 2015
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Originally Posted by docsherlock View Post
$12,000 for a single and not one blessed with reputation for reliability, either.

I could buy a CB500X + the Rally Raid 3 kit and do a six month trip for that money

Insane.
Current exchange rates mean that you won't be seeing many GP450s in the USA for the foreseeable future.
But, they will sell elsewhere.

As for the Honda, it's not really in the same game - here in the UK it is a learner's bike aimed at those who buy their first bike to obtain a licence, learn to ride and move on to another machine - all Honda marketing for the 500x is aimed in that way.
It's an esotheric interest to "change it's clothes".
Naturally, it has the budget suspension of most cheap bikes.
As per an earlier posting here, only a minority would want to buy a cheap brand new bike, dismantle major components, throw them away and buy more bits and pieces to turn that bike into a heavy weight "trail" bike.
Granted, some folks will do this with second hand 500x once the initial depreciation of the cheap bike has reduced it's value even more.

But, anyway, there's room for eveyone and we are all waiting for Yamaha to produce some more competition soon, probably fitted with budget suspension.
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  #110  
Old 13 Oct 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docsherlock View Post
C insurance here (N America) is not an issue and resale is higher due to the conversion.
Again, with reference to earlier posts, one is homologated for sale straight out of the box whereas heavily modified bikes are "frowned upon" by European insurers; some insurers may decline your business.
Not that a GP450 would spend much of it's life wrapped in a box.

As for resale, it's pretty much dead money to buy a lot of after market stuff; often, the best that can be done is to dismantle what you previously assembled (more unpaid labour) and sell the bits to those who already own that type of bike, while refitting the original bits (that you carefully stored rather than throw them in the skip) and move the bike on for sale as a standard machine; in the case of the CB500x, as a standard learner bike.
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  #111  
Old 13 Oct 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
As for resale, it's pretty much dead money to buy a lot of after market stuff; often, the best that can be done is to dismantle what you previously assembled (more unpaid labour) and sell the bits to those who already own that type of bike, while refitting the original bits (that you carefully stored rather than throw them in the skip) and move the bike on for sale as a standard machine; in the case of the CB500x, as a standard learner bike.
That's a good approach for re-sale. But a seller of the kitted CB500X could most likely find someone to buy the kitted bike. Maybe not for great money, but it would sell. But if trading in, putting it back to standard is best, as you've stated.

The Honda may be a learner's bike ... but it's (apparently) a very good one ... this according to several reviews I've read. And of course Jenny Mo is over the Moon about her kitted bike. Have you read her reports? Pretty impressive. But vested interest and all ... still ... she makes some good points.

But as has been said, the CB500X vs. CCM are Apples and Oranges really.

I don't need a race bike for travel ... but lots of riders DO ... they want a high performance, light weight machine for mega off road adventures.
It's ALL GOOD!
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  #112  
Old 14 Oct 2015
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Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
And of course Jenny Mo is over the Moon about her kitted bike. Have you read her reports? Pretty impressive. But vested interest and all ... still ... she makes some good points.
Yes, I have read that thread.
Sponsorship means that I put little value on her comments but it does illustrate what a good rider can do with a heavy, average machine.

Apart from that, I could not discern an advantage over, say, a F650GS (which I used to ride a few years ago). The latter has the smoothest single cylinder engine that I have yet ridden, and it can still be purchased new in the form of the G650GS (as a Sertao for instance).

But all pretty much from the GP450 other than the similar BMW logos on the engine castings.
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  #113  
Old 14 Oct 2015
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The only thing that depreciates faster than a CCM is fresh fish.

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  #114  
Old 15 Oct 2015
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Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
Yes, I have read that thread.
Sponsorship means that I put little value on her comments but it does illustrate what a good rider can do with a heavy, average machine.

Apart from that, I could not discern an advantage over, say, a F650GS (which I used to ride a few years ago). The latter has the smoothest single cylinder engine that I have yet ridden, and it can still be purchased new in the form of the G650GS (as a Sertao for instance).

But all pretty much from the GP450 other than the similar BMW logos on the engine castings.
CB500X is:
- smoother
- more reliable
- more economical
- faster
- Japanese
- easier to work on
and that's just for starters..... and also applies to comparison with the CCM, which appears to get the same gas mileage as my V-strom 650 and weighs almost the same, which negates the point of its existence IMHO.
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  #115  
Old 15 Oct 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docsherlock View Post
CB500X is:
- smoother
- more reliable
- more economical
- faster
- Japanese
- easier to work on
and that's just for starters..... and also applies to comparison with the CCM, which appears to get the same gas mileage as my V-strom 650 and weighs almost the same, which negates the point of its existence IMHO.
A quick investigation on the world’s favourite search engine came up with the following claimed weights:

V strom 650: 220kg (wet)
Cb500x 178kg (dry)
Ccm gp450: 125.5kg (wet?, dry?, averagely damp?: don’t know, as I didn’t bother clicking on the link. Things to do, people to see, places to go etc.)
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  #116  
Old 15 Oct 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post

V strom 650: 220kg (wet)
Cb500x 178kg (dry)
Ccm gp450: 125.5kg (wet?, dry?, averagely damp?: don’t know, as I didn’t bother clicking on the link. Things to do, people to see, places to go etc.)
I was starting to wonder which CCM GP450 is the subject of this thread.

On the basis that "a litre of water's a pint and 3/4 and a pound and a half of jam is slightly more than 1/2 Kg" then two GP450s weigh somewhat more than one V Strom.

Incidentally, CCMs own website claim 130 Kg for the weight factor - I guess they should know (but I still don't know if that is wet or dry even after a shower of rain in Bolton).
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  #117  
Old 15 Oct 2015
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GP450 has been on show

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
Current exchange rates mean that you won't be seeing many GP450s in the USA for the foreseeable future.
But, they will sell elsewhere.
From reading elsewhere, they have been seen at motorbike shows in Canada and homogolation for north America is planned; sometime - don't hold your breath as that process seems to be as much about politics, trade restrictions and import tariffs as any other aspect.

For anyone who hasn't actually seen one of these in the metal; the pictures can't convey the design and production standards of the bespoke manufacturing process. Hopefully, the latter will continue.
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  #118  
Old 15 Oct 2015
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At least part of the reason CCM may be late bringing the GP450 to USA is that homologation (even for small manufacturer) is around $100,000 USD per model. (The Japanese, BMW, KTM pay even more)

Not a fortune but even some Japanese OEM's balk at this fee. It's also a long, absurdly complex process that requires expert lawyers to navigate the loads of regulation, restrictions and requirements put up as road blocks by US Govt EPA, DOT.

The Japanese employ WHOLE departments to deal with Homologation of new models, which they use all the time. The Japanese and Euro OEM's have greased the skids and can get it done. They are good at it ... but took decades to get where they are now.

But for a small manufacture without DEEP pockets (and connections in high places) it's a daunting process.

This info from USA distributor I spoke with from Husaberg/KTM when they were thinking about bringing in street legal dual sport Husaberg bikes into USA in around 2005, they decided NOT to go through the process and only brought Husabergs in as dirt bikes (race bikes) which is far easier to do.

Lots more to this but won't bore everyone with details. LOTS OF THEM!
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  #119  
Old 16 Oct 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
A quick investigation on the world’s favourite search engine came up with the following claimed weights:

V strom 650: 220kg (wet)
Cb500x 178kg (dry)
Ccm gp450: 125.5kg (wet?, dry?, averagely damp?: don’t know, as I didn’t bother clicking on the link. Things to do, people to see, places to go etc.)
Guess the weight is a lot less than the other bikes. Why, then, the poor gas mileage from the CCM (about the same as my 650 V-strom)? And a lot less than the CB500X which has the same engine displacement and more weight?

Still not a compelling buy for me given the type of riding I do on long trips....
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  #120  
Old 16 Oct 2015
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In the absence of recent riding reports for the GP450, here's a comparison review of nearly two years ago.
http://ccm-motorcycles.com/_includes...ews-Review.pdf

Reading the summary, it is fairly easy to see where the manufacturer's asking price has been spent, particularly on the quoted kerb weight and the suspension specification.

Yep, it's still not everyones' cup of tea, but they are meant to be making just a few hundred per year so that won't be a factor to CCM.
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