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Photo by Igor Djokovic, camping above San Juan river, Arizona USA

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Igor Djokovic,
camping above San Juan river,
Arizona USA



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  #61  
Old 26 Jan 2015
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Originally Posted by MtnGuy View Post
No, I have not offered opinion other than about what I see online. Your comment seems to be the exception. You give puffed-up derision of experiences related by a decent, down to earth guy sharing his experiences. Apparently your brief ride on a moto trumps all of the other experiences given, in detail? At least in your mind, I am sure.


I think that you and most others reading this know about what has been posted, but thanks for that arrogant challenge.

CCM 450 Adventure - ADVrider

http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...happy-day.html


Edit to add- Thanks to the above posting I read some of the previous thread. Chris, you speak as if you have very serious hatred toward anything CCM in that thread. I just find it distasteful that such arrogant and derisive comments are railed against the real and extensive accounts of a decent, regular guy. Yep, got it, nothing from CCM EVER is ok with Chris. Thanks.
You questioned stuxtttr whether he had ever ridden one. Hence it would seem reasonable to ask you the same question. Or not.

You admit you've neither ridden, nor seen one in the flesh.

I have and have spoken to several people with a longer adventure biking CVs that most, who have also tried it. They concurred with my view. At the end of my "ride report" I suggested due diligence be carried out.

Of the 2 links you posted, how many of the unique posters have ridden one and how many comments are just idle chit chat (not a problem in itself, but not something most people would base a bike-buying decision on)? And how many are the same people contributing to the 3 (here and the 2 you link to) parallel threads.

A noob with no profile / public CV / signature completed and bandying about with emotive hyperbole like "hatred", "arrogant", "distasteful" etc in a thread started 7 months ago, could, to some, seem like the actions of an internet troll.

Why not book a test ride and report back with something that moves the discussion forward?
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  #62  
Old 26 Jan 2015
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Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
But they have carried over a few design elements I disagree with .... namely the swingarm shaft going through the countershaft. This is Horst Leitner's (ATK) idea ... and failed on several bikes
Unless there was more then one ATK-design their solution was pretty different. I think their aim was to generate a parallelogram to get a paralever-effect.

Unlike the G450X-engine the sprocket was not placed at the swingarm.
BTW: Changing the sprocket on a G450X takes 15-20 minutes..

The brake looks a bit funny, but it will save more then a kg unsprung mass.

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  #63  
Old 27 Jan 2015
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Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
Unless there was more then one ATK-design their solution was pretty different. I think their aim was to generate a parallelogram to get a paralever-effect.
Yes, many ATK designs over the years ... (find info in the links I posted). There is quite a long history with ATK. On again, Off again production for YEARS! MANY designs that Horst Leitner patented. Only a few bikes had the rear brake at the countershaft. I rode one ... a 250 two stroke if I recall. It was a good bike for 1988 but that brake caused problems. A friend owned it ... then someone stole it! Never seen again!

I also rode (and worked on) other ATK's (mid 90's) ... Rotax 600 ones used by San Francisco Police for about 2 years, then all sold off ... cheap. IIRC, these bikes all had the main shaft going through the front sprocket and swingarm, like the GS450 and CCM. If set up right, good bikes but very fiddly to deal with, but good strong motor.

I'm no expert on ATK or GS450's, ATK's were a LONG time ago for me ... but I DO remember David Knight commenting on the BMW a few years back ... he gave up millions and quit the team due to not getting on with the bike. But his team mates were getting podiums on the SAME bike. So who knows? :confused1:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
Unlike the G450X-engine the sprocket was not placed at the swingarm.
BTW: Changing the sprocket on a G450X takes 15-20 minutes..
I believe it was on SOME ATK bikes, not the ones with the brake there as shown in your pic ... I believe Leitner holds a patent for this design ... you may find his patents in links I posted ... I think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba View Post
The brake looks a bit funny, but it will save more then a kg unsprung mass.
Yes, true, there were always some good things in Leitner's designs and his bikes were always LIGHT WEIGHT ... but some had fatal flaws too. He nearly made it. Hung on for years here in the USA.

For me, I would not want to break loose a big swing arm bolt when on the road. On many bikes this type of bolt is torqued to about 100 to 120 ft. lbs.
I have Nothing in my tool kit that could handle that.
Perhaps CCM have made it easier to access the sprocket? I hope so. They've thought through just about everything ... so maybe it's a moot point?

I hope CCM can manage enough sales to get some solid feedback on the bikes long term performance and reliability.

Love the look and concept of the bike ... but for me? .... too old, to out of shape and too poor to ever own such a Gem ... and I'd never take it to "unstable" regions of the world! Kudos and good luck to those who will!
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  #64  
Old 21 Feb 2015
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tried it liked it

Hi all. Tried the GP450 at the factory on Tuesday. First of all what a lovely place, staff all friendly and helpful.
The bike.
It was just what I had expected and hoped it would be. It does instantly feel comfortable. Does zip along nicely and can accelerate/overtake easily. Does feel amazing going over mucky paths and I would guess due to the very low weight it would easily cope with much more than I managed to throw at it, feeling more confidence inspiring after two minutes than my F800 did after two years.
Most impressive was the build quality of the machine, incredible! I looked at the bikes on the prod line in various stages of completion and they looked like engineering works of art, very impressed.
The only question (not exactly a criticism) is the engine characteristics. Although it did everything from ticker to high revving overtakes it did feel slightly rough edged and racey. It didn't seem to feel happy at a constant throttle, it felt much better when accelerating or braking.
My reservations about it not being a big single were answered when I saw the bike. That BMW 450 engine it a miniature work of art and matches the rest of the bike perfectly.
So would I buy one... Yes, definitely. Just have to find the money as it's not cheap but neither is it overpriced for an off the shelf genuine adventure bike
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  #65  
Old 23 Feb 2015
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No I have not test rode a new CCM, my nearest dealer is currently 86 Miles away! (i live in the midlands just off the M1) do the factory send out a mechanic everytime it needs a service etc like Mclaren do?

Obviously motorcycle dealers are rushing to stock these bikes.

When the oppurtunity arises I will happily test ride a CCM, hell if they want me to they can send me a bike and I will try it for a month and give an honest review.

One comment mentions that us Brits don't give companies a chance? How many chances does a company get before the wise buyer goes elsewhere?

I hope that CCM have turned things around and that local jobs are secured and that in 12-18 months time we are getting lots of owners reporting back on great reliability and continued customer service.
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  #66  
Old 24 Feb 2015
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So, registration is finished and the first km's with my GP 450 are done:



So long,

da Wolf
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  #67  
Old 24 Feb 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vienna_wolfe View Post
So, registration is finished and the first km's with my GP 450 are done:



So long,

da Wolf
Thanks for sharing; the running in seems to be going very well, even for those T63s.
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  #68  
Old 24 Feb 2015
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Good film. I trust your Oscar acceptance speech is going to be less embarrassing than that Benedict Cucumber blokes?


Andy
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  #69  
Old 3 Mar 2015
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Vienna-Wolfe - really nice film - it least it shows the bike and engine is capable and controllable in pretty slippy conditions I like that ride out. Excellent.

Chris I liked your comment - simply because its your opinion having rode the bike on the road and off road i think for about 45 minutes to an hour you were away. I was there when you did the ride - I can vouch that you were hoping to like the bike and that you had told me over breakfast that it would be good to be proven wrong on your opinion of CCM and the bike. However on your return you really were unhappy with the handling - You were upfront to the CCM lads as well at the time.

Your comments are based on your experience whether folk agree or not with your view - they are your views from your ride. - so fair enough.

A number of riders did dislike the bike, however an equal number loved the bike - its a bit of a marmite bike it appears. Love it or Hate it. No middle ground.

I did not ride the bike as I was not in a position to do any off roading at the time - so did not take the bike out - still to me its one stunning piece of machinery and engineering. Now wish i had taken one just down the road for a short road ride that day.

jake.
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  #70  
Old 3 Mar 2015
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It's a little dicey taking opinions from random riders whose experience on such bikes may be limited and who's dirt bike back ground on REAL dirt bikes may be nil.

What needs to happen is what happens to ALL new bikes: Testing. Collect 3 or 4 other similar bikes in the CCM's class, let Novice to Expert level riders have good go on them ... tally up the results. Hopefully not just a 1/2 hour ride but more like a week riding ALL the bikes in question, ridden over a variety of terrain, loaded and unloaded of gear.

If I were editor, off the top of my head I would pick from the following road legal bikes to include in the Comparo to the CCM:

Husqvarna TE310 (made by KTM)
KTM 450EXC
KTM 350EXC
Yamaha 250R
Beta 450 dual sport (road legal)

Also in contention?
Honda 450RR Rally Bike (if available)
Suzuki DRZ400S

Take them all out and do some hard riding on them. The Novices would not be complete dirt bike Noobs, but just not AA level pro racers. They ALL should be good street riders as well as competent off road riders.
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  #71  
Old 3 Mar 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post

A number of riders did dislike the bike, however an equal number loved the bike - its a bit of a marmite bike it appears. Love it or Hate it. No middle ground.

+1 to Marmite bike. The great thing about the vast majority of this HUBB thread, compared to the ABR thread that was linked in post #56 is that here people can discuss and disagree without people having tantrums about it. Elsewhere if you go against the forum's (self proclaimed) opinion leaders' topic for the next love-in, they get really shirty. Hey ho, good luck to them.

The HUBB has possibly matured: Anyone remember the aggro here a few years ago when some people dared to criticise that well known brand from Germany

Never bothered reading the advrider thread, so have no opinion on it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
It's a little dicey taking opinions from random riders whose experience on such bikes may be limited and who's dirt bike back ground on REAL dirt bikes may be nil.
Opinions are like ar$eholes. We all have one and what someone spouts is 99% of the time just hot air or pure brown stuff.

Having said that, most of the nay-sayers that Jake refers to are experienced long distance travellers, hobby or ex-professional enduro riders. All were potential customers. They're not now. They'll stick to their crf250s /xr400s/ drz400s etc.

Assuming all CCMs aren't just a mess straight out the box, the bike I rode might have behaved better if it had been set up right. If it was just set up badly, then it's a high risk marketing strategy to send a couple of dog-bikes to an event where every person attending (+/-200) was a potential customer.

Last edited by chris; 3 Mar 2015 at 19:32.
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  #72  
Old 3 Mar 2015
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I've had a go. On road and off-road.

Like Chris I was un-impressed. I didn't HATE it but I think I was expecting a lot more for that kind of price.

The engine felt horrible. Vibey and twitchy and the strangely geared. It was hard to find a gear that I was happy in. However it was still in prototype stage. I don't know if they are/will still making any changed since I rode it in late 2014.

I also didn't like the geometry. But I put that down to the bikes being set up for other riders as they were demo's.

On a whole, I would love to see CCM do well. I'd love to support a British brand.

However, I would never recommend a friend to buy one as an adventure bike as I rode it. There are just far too many trusted, proven an arguably better bikes in that category for a quite a few thousand quid cheaper.

In fact a ten year old DRZ400 with just some basic mods would make the CCM look unnecessary an can be picked up for under £2000.

And would that 450 lump and space aged frame survive a RTW off-road adventure ??? Is anyone testing it ???
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  #73  
Old 4 Mar 2015
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Originally Posted by *Touring Ted* View Post
And would that 450 lump and space aged frame survive a RTW off-road adventure ??? Is anyone testing it ???
Good point! I wonder if CCM are perhaps still figuring out their customer base. Bit late to be doing that at this late date ...
Seems like the long term, long distance RTW testing should have been done over a year ago, before things were locked in?

Maybe they could sponsor a team or two to get out there and wave the flag?
Get some press, establish some cred?

But at the asking price ... it may be a stretch for many young budding ADV riders?
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  #74  
Old 8 Mar 2015
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[QUOTE "No I have not test rode a new CCM, my nearest dealer is currently 86 Miles away! (i live in the midlands just off the M1) do the factory send out a mechanic everytime it needs a service etc like Mclaren do?
When the oppurtunity arises I will happily test ride a CCM, hell if they want me to they can send me a bike and I will try it for a month and give an honest review."


Have you ever bought anything in your life where you get to try it for a month?!

I live in the midlands also but I thought how lucky I was that the factory where they're made is only up the road from me

One of them glass half full half numpty things I guess
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  #75  
Old 31 Mar 2015
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Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
Some people have managed to put a few 1000 miles on the pre-production machine.
You can see their views here:-
http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...t=10&start=130
da Wolfe, just as an update to the post above, there is a newish thread that comes from some of those in the UK who own and ride this bike; the production version that you own.
You might like the owner info in there.
http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...he-owners.html
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Last edited by Walkabout; 31 Mar 2015 at 18:16.
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