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Photo by Josephine Flohr, Elephant at Camp, Namibia

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Josephine Flohr,
Elephant at Camp, Namibia



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  #46  
Old 26 Dec 2014
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@ Jack, Dave: thx!

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Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
Looks like the white van man met you part of the way to deliver the new bike.
Yes - he has been on his way to Switzerland to deliver the first bikes to the swiss CCM-dealer and I met him in France just before he crossed the (EU)-border to take over my GP 450. Worked perfect and I didn't need to hire a shipping company.

Since I have to wait for registration till 2015, what is really very hard for me I took some photos in the garage yesterday:























Love it!

So long,

da Wolf
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  #47  
Old 26 Dec 2014
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A beautiful bike!
In every picture I have seen so far the bike comes without a chain guard and it was the same at the UK show; from memory none of those bikes on display were fitted with a guard.
At the show I think I saw tapped holes in the top of the swinging arm for fitting a guard - are they an optional extra?
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  #48  
Old 26 Dec 2014
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Some words of caution

After previously slagging off the Ccm brand and the BMW g450 donor engine I went and test rode the Ccm 450 at a relatively recent travel biker's event in the UK. In a perverse sort of way I wanted to like the bike. However I didn't. Some people might think I'm just trolling around causing mischief. I'm not!

I would not recommend this bike to any friends of mine. On the paved road it felt okish. On the dirt it was downright dangerous. The front end geometry and handling felt all wrong. The throttle response was either on or off. The vibes through the pegs were too severe.

I've plenty of experience of similar bikes ( drz400e and BMW x challenge).3 other people with long adventure riding cvs had similar opinions.

If you want to buy one of these bikes please take an extensive off road test ride before you buy. It may be your thing but it most definitely wasn't mine.

Last edited by chris; 29 Dec 2014 at 22:45. Reason: If
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  #49  
Old 5 Jan 2015
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CCM 450 at Stockholm MC Mässan 22.-25.Jan 2015

Now we have a green light: one CCM GP 450 Adventure will be on display at the Stockholm Motorcycle Show this month at stand A33:62 (explore360). This will be the bike orderd by me, including some nice extras like adjustable windscreen, engine guard, adjustable back damper, soft luggage system, among others.

By then we will also have a rough plan in place for two test riding events this spring: most likely one in the Stockholm area and one bigger event in Delsbo at the dealer NCCR's place! We are aiming to get several bikes over from the UK for those guided group test rides, more about this when the logistics are fixed.

So for those in Sweden: welcome at MC Mässan, let's talk adventure there!

PS: I can absolutely not agree to Chris opinion, I have been on a long ride on the bike recently in the UK. But of course at those test ride events everyone will be able to get a first hand impression her/himself!
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  #50  
Old 16 Jan 2015
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Good man minkyhead!

Quote:
Originally Posted by minkyhead View Post
hello ill be honest here ive kept from posting on the hubb as i feel a bit intimidated ..with all the expieriance and long distance travellers and i take my hat off to them .....

now i have the oppertunity and time to do it

i wont as more then a few weeks away from my family and especially my grandchildren will not allow me to do it ..my family ties are far too strong ...that said i ride locally and abroad every year ..for the pleasure of feeling free and being on my bike

i have ridden bikes since 7 years old and off road bikes since 12 i am 57 years old ...in all the time i have travelled around all be it not around the world i have never fallen out with a teamate and have never had so much as a harsh word ...and would never hesitate to help a fellow rider



indeed if i travel with someone i would do anything to help a fellow rider out and expect the same ....and we have always found the same common ground ...namly motorcycles and the enthuisasum that comes with riding them

i have no connection with ccm whatsoever other than ordering one and say as i find ..if you dont believe that ....you dont know me which of courseyou dont

i am no ones uncle tom

....i make no appoligy for liking and supporting the bike ..its done what its supposed to and hasnt dissapointed me in any way ..it is open to anyone in the uk to ride by appointment ...so there no need to trust anyone elses opinion ..especially mine it seems ....???

i went down 18 months ago and they showed me the prototype ..no working tank but i just loved the narrowness and lightness of it .....i considered it could keep me riding longer off road than the big bikes ..i keep falling and stalling ..........so because i puta deposit down there and then chassis number six .......and then 14 months later there was delays
homaglation ..suppliers ectect ...they lent me the bike as i was one of the original cusomers and i had booked the taffy dakar portugal and a gatesgarth pass weekend ...expecting delivery
.......so thats how i got to ride the bike and thats why i know a bit more about it than most ......
belive me they took a chance as i will post as i will find ....
strangly i just want to get the bike now and dissapear off the internet ..other than my meets and runs as ive had enough of this virtual bollocks .....it really isnt me at all

and ive had endless disscussions with folks online ..who have never taken the oppertunity to ride one

..and they still take every oppertunity to kick the bike in the nuts .. the frame will snap ..it will blow up after 15 hours ....no way will the oil last a trip ect ect .....well evidence is building to the contary ... im pissed off with it now i just want to get my bike and ride it .....20months anyone can get a little stirr crazy

the above description of me a s a person and fellow rider is unjustified ....and written by a guy i have never ridden with or met and as far as i can tell is downright uncalled for ..ive looked at the website and its all very impressive ..i admire your expiriance and achievments ...

.but please mr brighty at least try pull the hood off before you shoot a guy between the eyes

..as it is to all the other dozens of adventure book riders and freinds ive travelled with at home and abroad over the years ..

you may be surprised where and what some of the abr crowd have done in there own litte unpubisised .. way and indeed how good some of them are handling a bike .... novice to expert and anything inbetween ...but at least we stick tgether and dont diss eachother irrespective of ability expeiriance or bike

all id say is if anything ive written about the ccm 450 is objectonal or my arguments for and against it are not your cup of tea thats fine .....
but if you want to try and dismiss and belittle somone or label them ...... on line

at least have the decency to meet him ride with him first ...maby ride the bike too

.... and then form your opinion before putting it it in to print ......

in good faith... steve halsall .. aka ordinary guy

aka ..... adventure book reader ....
Mr. minkyhead,

THANK YOU for all of the information and FIRSTHAND no BS account of your experience with the GP450. I have read what you have posted on three websites- you are one of the best sources of good information, from what I see. As well, forums are enhanced by your kind but passionate prose!
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  #51  
Old 19 Jan 2015
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I wish anyone well with their new bike and hope its a happy journey.

They look ace but then so did my CCM 604 back in 1999, it had lots of trick parts and looked so sweet, but looks arent everything and I'm afraid thats where the dream ended.

To put it mildly it was the most unreiliable heap of shite, when it ran it was a joy it let me down so many times it ruined all that, I was lucky to enjoy a trip to Portugal and back across the Picos Europa but I could have done the same on a Honda without all the heartache and I would probably still own the XR 400 that I should have purchased instead of the CCM.

I remember the week before I picked mine up MCN suddenly ran an article on how tempremental they were and I very nearly cancelled mine!!

Its all well and good saying people are giving negative opinions, well the negativity comes from a high cost product from a company with a very sketchy background. If I had 8k to invest in a bike I don't think I would take a gamble on an unproven product that could completely ruin an adventure. Are CCM still knocking out chineese junk re branded with red plastics and snazzy graphics for double what they cost elsewhere? Yeah great company destroying the future of biking by selling utter tat to youngsters who could be put off motorcycling for life and don't have the spare money to keep replacing engines made from jelly.

I really do hope this new venture works for them because its not fair to charge 8k for a bike that the customers are going to develop and test for you.

Just make sure that if you venture far away from civilisation on one of these that you take a mate on a proven bike to bring you home.
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  #52  
Old 23 Jan 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuxtttr View Post
I wish anyone well with their new bike and hope its a happy journey.

They look ace but then so did my CCM 604 back in 1999, it had lots of trick parts and looked so sweet, but looks arent everything and I'm afraid thats where the dream ended.

To put it mildly it was the most unreiliable heap of shite, when it ran it was a joy it let me down so many times it ruined all that, I was lucky to enjoy a trip to Portugal and back across the Picos Europa but I could have done the same on a Honda without all the heartache and I would probably still own the XR 400 that I should have purchased instead of the CCM.

I remember the week before I picked mine up MCN suddenly ran an article on how tempremental they were and I very nearly cancelled mine!!

Its all well and good saying people are giving negative opinions, well the negativity comes from a high cost product from a company with a very sketchy background. If I had 8k to invest in a bike I don't think I would take a gamble on an unproven product that could completely ruin an adventure. Are CCM still knocking out chineese junk re branded with red plastics and snazzy graphics for double what they cost elsewhere? Yeah great company destroying the future of biking by selling utter tat to youngsters who could be put off motorcycling for life and don't have the spare money to keep replacing engines made from jelly.

I really do hope this new venture works for them because its not fair to charge 8k for a bike that the customers are going to develop and test for you.

Just make sure that if you venture far away from civilisation on one of these that you take a mate on a proven bike to bring you home.
Have you seen and examined or ridden the GP450? If not, then your words lack the relevancy of someone who has spent time riding the moto.

In my 45 years of motorcycle riding, motos have failed me- including transmissions on a Suzuki and a Yamaha, and electrical problems and general craziness of a Husky CR360 like Mikkola used. As well a Suzuki did well for two seasons traveling, as has a Yamaha that is very good but tends to get a lot of unreasonable illogical dissing online- much like the above.

What is online about the GP450 supports overwhelmingly that it is a very good moto, and thus far no big problems showing up.
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  #53  
Old 23 Jan 2015
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One of these bikes has been used to follow the 2015 Dakar race; pics in the link -
http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...t=10&start=170
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  #54  
Old 24 Jan 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGuy View Post
Have you seen and examined or ridden the GP450? If not, then your words lack the relevancy of someone who has spent time riding the moto.

In my 45 years of motorcycle riding, motos have failed me- including transmissions on a Suzuki and a Yamaha, and electrical problems and general craziness of a Husky CR360 like Mikkola used. As well a Suzuki did well for two seasons traveling, as has a Yamaha that is very good but tends to get a lot of unreasonable illogical dissing online- much like the above.

What is online about the GP450 supports overwhelmingly that it is a very good moto, and thus far no big problems showing up.
Both you guys make fair points. Mtnguy, is the Noob here and may want to consider reading what's gone before and what's been said about this bike on another thread here:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ure-bike-69964

Pretty much covers it all. I'm on there with a few opinions as is Stuxtttr and several other knowledgeable HUBB members with VAST experience. it's 20 some pages and well worth the read if you want a broader ranges of voices on the CCM450 GP, the companies history and it's future. Very useful thread with a few diversions.

All that said ... one can't deny the questionable history of CCM. But for me, I'm totally willing to give CCM the benefit of the doubt. Lets just not forget that the CCM "Phoenix" has risen from ashes at least twice (I'm aware of) ... and I know little about them, never owned or ridden one. Maybe more to their history ... ??

But seems they've gone back to "ze old drawing board" more than once ... and this bike really does look good (IMO). But they have carried over a few design elements I disagree with .... namely the swingarm shaft going through the countershaft. This is Horst Leitner's (ATK) idea ... and failed on several bikes ... including BMW's own World Enduro GP race bikes when David Knight was riding for them. It's also a BAD IDEA to have on a travel bike for a number of reasons. (remove swingarm for sprocket change or changing chain? )

I rode ATK's in the 90's and watched these systems fail ... in person. The rear brake rotor was also located up on the countershaft! They burnt up... literally. Some say it helps handling. If it's such a good idea how come no world champion race bikes use it? NONE of the Japanese use it ... but I do know they tried it ... back in the 1980 ...and realized it was NOT SUITED for a Moto cross or off road bike. They never went back to it.
See also:
ATK motorcycles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ATK models & brand history - autoevolution

Here in California, my local dealer carried CCM going back to the early to mid 90's. Not positive, but IIRC the first one I saw used a Rotax motor? Next one I saw a few years later used (I think) either a Suzuki DR650 motor or a DRZ400 motor?? ... don't recall which. The bikes looked pretty trick ... but very few were sold, dealer ended up eating it on them. I doubt he'll be signed up to carry anymore CCM, given his 10 years (or so) of experience with them.

I wish CCM all the best ... and many have very short memories and don't do research. So who knows? Perhaps CCM have a shot at success. We DO need such a bike in this class, that we all pretty much agree on. But is the CCM more a Race Bike more suited to racing the Dakar than going RTW on a budget?

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  #55  
Old 24 Jan 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGuy View Post
Have you seen and examined or ridden the GP450?.
Have you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGuy View Post

What is online about the GP450 supports overwhelmingly that it is a very good moto, and thus far no big problems showing up.
Please share the website links pro and con the ccm that support this statement.
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  #56  
Old 24 Jan 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
Have you?







Please share the website links pro and con the ccm that support this statement.
No, I have not offered opinion other than about what I see online. Your comment seems to be the exception. You give puffed-up derision of experiences related by a decent, down to earth guy sharing his experiences. Apparently your brief ride on a moto trumps all of the other experiences given, in detail? At least in your mind, I am sure.


I think that you and most others reading this know about what has been posted, but thanks for that arrogant challenge.

CCM 450 Adventure - ADVrider

http://www.adventurebikerider.com/fo...happy-day.html

Edit to add- Thanks to the above posting I read some of the previous thread. Chris, you speak as if you have very serious hatred toward anything CCM in that thread. I just find it distasteful that such arrogant and derisive comments are railed against the real and extensive accounts of a decent, regular guy. Yep, got it, nothing from CCM EVER is ok with Chris. Thanks.
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  #57  
Old 24 Jan 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
Both you guys make fair points. Mtnguy, is the Noob here and may want to consider reading what's gone before and what's been said about this bike on another thread here:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...ure-bike-69964

Pretty much covers it all. I'm on there with a few opinions as is Stuxtttr and several other knowledgeable HUBB members with VAST experience. it's 20 some pages and well worth the read if you want a broader ranges of voices on the CCM450 GP, the companies history and it's future. Very useful thread with a few diversions.

All that said ... one can't deny the questionable history of CCM. But for me, I'm totally willing to give CCM the benefit of the doubt. Lets just not forget that the CCM "Phoenix" has risen from ashes at least twice (I'm aware of) ... and I know little about them, never owned or ridden one. Maybe more to their history ... ??

But seems they've gone back to "ze old drawing board" more than once ... and this bike really does look good (IMO). But they have carried over a few design elements I disagree with .... namely the swingarm shaft going through the countershaft. This is Horst Leitner's (ATK) idea ... and failed on several bikes ... including BMW's own World Enduro GP race bikes when David Knight was riding for them. It's also a BAD IDEA to have on a travel bike for a number of reasons. (remove swingarm for sprocket change or changing chain? )

I rode ATK's in the 90's and watched these systems fail ... in person. The rear brake rotor was also located up on the countershaft! They burnt up... literally. Some say it helps handling. If it's such a good idea how come no world champion race bikes use it? NONE of the Japanese use it ... but I do know they tried it ... back in the 1980 ...and realized it was NOT SUITED for a Moto cross or off road bike. They never went back to it.
See also:
ATK motorcycles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ATK models & brand history - autoevolution

Here in California, my local dealer carried CCM going back to the early to mid 90's. Not positive, but IIRC the first one I saw used a Rotax motor? Next one I saw a few years later used (I think) either a Suzuki DR650 motor or a DRZ400 motor?? ... don't recall which. The bikes looked pretty trick ... but very few were sold, dealer ended up eating it on them. I doubt he'll be signed up to carry anymore CCM, given his 10 years (or so) of experience with them.

I wish CCM all the best ... and many have very short memories and don't do research. So who knows? Perhaps CCM have a shot at success. We DO need such a bike in this class, that we all pretty much agree on. But is the CCM more a Race Bike more suited to racing the Dakar than going RTW on a budget?

Yes, sounds like problems in the past. I think one can make that case for any brand of moto. Even Honda had some duds.

The data that is accumulating in regard to the CCM GP450 so far seems ok. Wait and see.
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  #58  
Old 24 Jan 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
Chris, your really hitting at this bike again - really it is not needed, to be so negative about a fledgling project such as CCM, more so when your views may be quite influential within the HUBB network by way of your experience, background and travel history.
As you will know and I am sure there will be many people who look up to the like of yourself for advice and guidance from your wide experience which is fair enough, however if you have your facts wrong ( different to your personal views) that then would be very unfair to the likes of CCM looking at what they are trying to achieve and where they are at the moment.
You have not ridden the bike but you have a mate that did not like it - well there are many that have ridden it and thought it excellent - two friends of mine who like yourself have done big trips - massive cross continent trips - on various bikes both say they would consider the bike very high on the list of bikes.
I have not yet ridden the bike for various reasons but still cannot see why your so negative I can only be positive about it in its concept.
The CCM is new and offers something that does not exist to this market - it also appears of high build quality - yes it need proven but so does everything new to the market. CCM have it appears learnt from the past and hopefully (given the chance) moved on into a new chapter with this bike.
Bye the way (as for drz's something many people often refer to) one of the riders i mention above also ownes a drz and does not rate it that highly, constantly goes on about - various aspects of the poor build quality, the know failings and unreliable side of the DRZ series history. Thats not to mention the amount of money spent to bring his particular bike up to a reasonable level - still not comparable to the CCM.
To add to that I did some work on the bike with him recently - and have to say i was shocked at the poor quality of simple things like the electrics and some of the chassis welding - I was surprised as this was on a very low mileage bike.
I currently ride a Cagiva elefant at the moment another bike you would not rate - based on what ? an italian bias a ducati bias -who knows - but the quality of the chassis and general engineering are simply years ahead of its time and even the wiring (now almost 20 years old and with a tiny amount of modifcation) on the Elefant are way ahead of the much more modern drz. (I agree the Elefant is a little more complex to work on the engine) but still easy enough. I think we will never agree on our views over this CCM or the Elefant or the BMW for that matter but hey ho. Why however go on about the CCM - when you have nothing good to say about the machine nor any experience of it.
Yep.

Thanks to folks who take the time to give useful information, And huge thanks to Minkyhead, ViennaWolfe, the guy at the Dakar, and others who actually ride the moto.

Early days, something could go wrong, but for now the GP450 looks good. That said, for me personally it will be unlikely but not out of the question that I would go for the GP450. I like what I currently ride, it suits the geography of my area.

But it looks like this CCM GP450 is a well done effort, as far as it has been shown thus far.
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  #59  
Old 25 Jan 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog View Post

All that said ... one can't deny the questionable history of CCM. But for me, I'm totally willing to give CCM the benefit of the doubt. Lets just not forget that the CCM "Phoenix" has risen from ashes at least twice (I'm aware of) ... and I know little about them, never owned or ridden one. Maybe more to their history ... ??
:
You have clearly stated a key cultural difference between the "good old Brit" nation and the "upstart, breakaway colonials".
In the UK we just don't do "forgive", never mind "forget", especially in business.

I think this results in a lack of entrepreneurs in Britain: much business research has been done on this matter - we punish miscreant businesses very harshly compared with the business law in the USA.

I think I have read, or heard in conversation with the CCM staff at the UK show last November, that the front sprocket can be removed without detaching the swinging arm: hopefully, one or more of the new owners can confirm if this is the case.
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  #60  
Old 25 Jan 2015
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I hope I'm wrong on that ... but seems it was stated early on in discussions on the CCM? Not really sure. Anyone confirm?

Where and how does the swingarm attach? Does main splined drive shaft go through swing arm and countershaft sprocket?

I know the BMW 450 GP race bikes used this system. With this system I would also be concerned with bearing wear. Normally swingarm bearings aren't something RTW riders need to worry about very often. But with that system?
Dunno ? :confused1:

I'll have a look on CCM site and report back.
EDIT:
OK, here is what is stated on CCM website:

Swingarm
Race track derived rear swing arm using a pivot point near to concentric with the output shaft to reduce chain tension variation and increase traction on loose surfaces. Careful controlled lateral flex leads to a swingarm giving a smooth and predictable ride on the road with the strength and ability to handle the toughest terrain possible.


I question the "race track derived" ... what major OEM race team has ever used such a system besides BMW's very brief
involvement in World Enduro? The above statement seems bit vague, anyone have a more detailed technical explanation?
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Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




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