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Which Bike? Comments and Questions on what is the best bike for YOU, for YOUR trip. Note that we believe that ANY bike will do, so please remember that it's all down to PERSONAL OPINION. Technical Questions for all brands go in their own forum.
Photo by Josephine Flohr, Elephant at Camp, Namibia

I haven't been everywhere...
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Elephant at Camp, Namibia



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  #106  
Old 20 Mar 2019
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The 790 probably inherited all the snazzy electronics from the road bike version which came out last year to wide acclaim.
The work is done so might as well incorporate it all on the adv version to help trounce the competition.

I too read a review where a 790 with off-road TC on climbed a gravelly slope better than without.
Interesting stuff. I suppose feathering the clutch has the same effect, but takes more finesse.
It might mean less balls-out momentum needed to climb slopes which should make a bike safer.
I know with early TC 4x4s it wasn’t always like that in dunes and soft sand where each momentarily braked wheel slowly dug itself in one after the other, but that was years ago.
Like ABS, TC must have got cleverer but according to Bike mag review not that clever: needs to be turned off for soft sand or eventually you sink in. So no better than a regular bike. Operator skill still required.

Meanwhile the T700 is based on the humble MT07 and spin-offs, a budget but phenomenally successful machine.
Probably over 100,000 CP2-powered examples sold RTW by now, if you include Tracers and XSRs. One of the best-selling Yams of all time.
The say the novel Niken was a one of the experimental spin-offs from all those sales.

I suppose if you scrutinise the internet long enough, some CP2 turkeys will crop up among that number.
Point us to the sources, tremens.
Biggest complaint I ever read/experienced was crap suspension. Easily fixed.

To me keeping the T700 simple and inexpensive is in the ethos of former Teneres.
The 660Z was an absolute bargain when it came out. I paid £4k for one just run in, iirc.
Yamaha probably know that, initially at least, they'll easily sell enough T700s without having to resort to impressive electronics packages, or even TL tyres.

Hard to know if the much-complained about long lead time is a flawed promo strategy, last minute tinkering to get it right, or just far too 'get-them-all-talking' clever for us dummies to appreciate ;-)

Last edited by Chris Scott; 30 Apr 2019 at 12:40.
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  #107  
Old 21 Mar 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
I suppose feathering the clutch has the same effect, but takes more finesse.
It might mean less balls-out momentum needed to climb slopes which should make a bike safer.
AFAIK traction control hasn't made its way on to trials bikes, used in a sport where traction can make the difference between winning and losing. Is the Mk.1 human brain better at finding grip than any CPU?

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Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
Point us to the sources, tremens.
I'd be really interested to read any evidence of unreliability in this series of motors as well.

Kind regards,

Ian.
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  #108  
Old 22 Mar 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
Point us to the sources, tremens.
nothing major, but leaks etc:
https://fz07.org/thread/9580/anyone-...heir-new-fz07/

not the only one case above of course but I don't remember now all links,
also could find any high mileage, I mean near 100k km yet.
I'm not saying this engine is bad, just personally I wouldn't trust as long distance unit it as I trust my xt660z engine, that's all. If you like it, that's great.
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  #109  
Old 26 Mar 2019
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Originally Posted by Cholo View Post
Tremens: that is not a leak, gentle weep perhaps that an adjustment with a torquemeter will sort out. That doesn't make the motor delicate or unreliable and certainly wouldn't stop me buying one.
So do I buy a Tenere 700 or the super?
If there is a serious problem with the 700 motor please tell (other than a 5 minute torque adjustment or a new gasket (made enough of those out of sheets of gasket paper))

I trust people on this forum more than the brand specific forums because of the type of riding we enjoy
The Super does seem to offer fantastic value for money on the used market and looks like it would eat Continent's for breakfast but it is a big ole barge for the rough stuff.
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  #110  
Old 21 May 2019
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Reviews are coming in from the launch in Spain.
For the moment this is a good one:
https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/201...-31-fast-facts
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  #111  
Old 29 May 2019
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I really like the look of these and the simplicity. An independent, German survey reveals that the MT07 engine is currently the most reliable motorcycle engine in the world.

I wish Yamaha had brought it out a couple of years ago as I’ll have to wait now for second hand prices
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  #112  
Old 29 May 2019
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good review below, made me want to test this bike soon.

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  #113  
Old 30 May 2019
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Originally Posted by tremens View Post
good review below, made me want to test this bike soon.
The reviewer, Chris Moss, is a freelance motorcycle journalist, yet hasn't ridden the KTM 790 Adventure yet. Hmm. If KTM didn't invite him to the launch then by now he should have wandered down to his nearest KTM dealer like Jo Public.

There's no doubting the T700 is fantastic value. I'd be interested in a comparison between the T700 and the XT660Z Tenere. The two bikes are about the same cc, the same dry weight, have the same 210/200mm suspension travel.

I imagine the T700 suspension is higher quality, but the fuel tank is smaller. Adding a cylinder probably improves the quality of road travel—the XT660Z was intractable at low revs.

Any other improvements? What's the overall effect for road and off-tarmac riding?

The XT660Z had one of the widest set of gear ratios I've come across despite only having a five-speed box. I understand the T700 uses the same six gearbox ratios as the road going bike. This is exactly the same mistake BMW made with the 650/800GS when they used the 800ST box, and what KTM did when they used the Duke box in the 790 Adventure. We NEED wide ratios for dual sport bikes, not road-going gearboxes.
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Last edited by Tim Cullis; 30 May 2019 at 12:42.
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  #114  
Old 30 May 2019
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The T700 will be miles better than the 660Z in every way, bar fuel range.
Better suspension (with HPA!), nicer motor, same weight but hopefully not as top heavy. (Though I have to say my XScrambleR felt heavy for a 185-kilo bike).

Quote:
We NEED wide ratios, not road-going gearboxes.
Not sure what the difference is between a wide-ratio box and a road-going box.
I'd say they're the same thing on a touring bike which is how most adv bike are used most of the time.
Tractable motors (broad spread of power) – like the CP2, BMW 650/700 and I imagine the new 750/850 and the 790 – work well with such ratios.
I'd even add a Himalayan to that list. I haven't analysed gear ratios but it feels exceeding wide yet works within the limits of the bike.

The usual problem I find is a too-tall 1st gear on rocky, walking-pace rocky climbs on stock gearing.
The 660 did 8mph at tick-over, iirc. Way too fast, so the clutch gets over-worked. Not good for too long on a hot day, or longevity in general. Especially with heavy loads. I suppose the T7 will be the same.
Partly ameliorated with a front sprocket swap (easier said than done on the F650/700GS), but these are 200-kilo bikes. Such terrain is not for everyone.
What would be good is an extra low 1st, as found on some ag bikes.

Up to a point good suspension enables you to ride such climbs faster without clutch slipping or crashing. I imagine the 790 will excel at that but I have to say I was surprised how well my XSR (same T7 motor and gearing) crawled up Jebel Sarhro switchbacks. A lot of clutch slipping and fans whirring, but very easy to control on the limited suspension compared to similar dogs I've ridden up there.

Looking forward to reading (or I suppose, watching) a comparison with a 790, T700 and 850GS and maybe the 19-er CB500X.
If I didn't know better I'd say we're approaching peak travel bike.
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  #115  
Old 30 May 2019
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Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
Not sure what the difference is between a wide-ratio box and a road-going box. I'd say they're the same thing on a touring bike which is how most adv bike are used most of the time.
Well, yes, if all someone does is tour they might not value a wide spread, but for mixed road/off-tarmac you do, especially less experienced riders who when riding off-tarmac tend to be going quite slowly.

When BMW introduced the F800GS and F650GS twin they used the gearbox from the F800ST and F800S road bikes. To try to cover up the deficiencies for dual sport use BMW put different sprockets on the two bikes—16/42 on the more 'off-tarmac biased' F800GS and 17/41 on the more 'road biased' F650GS twin. Consequently whilst the F800GS had a lower first gear (but still not low enough for some) it was buzzy at motorway speeds, and whilst the F650GS twin was better on motorways the first gear was much higher than ideal for off-tarmac.

The spread between 1st (2.46) and 6th (0.96) gears on the F800/650GS twin is a miserly 2.56. On the KTM 790 Adventure it's better at 2.98.

On the XT660Z and the 650GS single it's 3.25, even though both those bikes have only five-speed boxes. In fact the XT660Z has a wider spread on just 1st to 4th gears than the F800GS has between 1st and 6th!

Engine tractability can overcome some of this but already some 790 Adventure owners are talking about swapping sprockets. This is far from ideal as you might want to lower 1st by 20% but of course that would screw up motorway speed riding.
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Last edited by Tim Cullis; 1 Jun 2019 at 21:57.
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  #116  
Old 31 May 2019
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Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
The T700 will be miles better than the 660Z in every way, bar fuel range.
I am afraid it will not be the case but who knows, current reviews are mostly sponsored ones.
For now I don't really see a reason why I would want to switch from my old tenere although ordering is available on yamaha site.

New T7 looks far more delicate then xt660z including engine, small 16 liters tank is a sleazy move by yamaha to make it less top heavy, seat looks like from dirt bike, xt has very good seat. Just because suspension is adjustable doesn't mean it will be much better. Newer models xt660z have pretty good progressive suspension IMO, I don't complain at my 240lb weight.

Price seems competitive but you will need buy crash bars, rear rack and handles, better seat. XT doesn't need that.
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  #117  
Old 31 May 2019
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Originally Posted by Tim Cullis View Post
I imagine the T700 suspension is higher quality, but the fuel tank is smaller. Adding a cylinder probably improves the quality of road travel—the XT660Z was intractable at low revs.
Yeah, I am also curious how is E.G. the handling compared to xt660z.
Regarding low revs I tuned my tenere for this and don't have any problems
with trail riding at very low revs, walking speed. Different sprockets, lambda delete, airbox mod, CO tuning etc all did the trick. Few more horses would be good though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis View Post
The reviewer, Chris Moss, is a freelance motorcycle journalist, yet hasn't ridden the KTM 790 Adventure yet
maybe KTM was afraid he'd be too honest at his 790R review
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  #118  
Old 3 Jun 2019
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... Different sprockets, lambda delete, airbox mod, CO tuning etc all did the trick
Not needed with CP2 engine. That's why it's been so successful.

Last edited by Chris Scott; 11 Jun 2019 at 23:33.
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  #119  
Old 11 Jun 2019
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Another gushing video review.

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  #120  
Old 20 Jun 2019
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TC?

What is the general view on the fact that the 700 Tenere does not have Traction Control? Main use would be TET Europe and planning a ride from Europe to Magadan.
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