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Which Bike? Comments and Questions on what is the best bike for YOU, for YOUR trip. Note that we believe that ANY bike will do, so please remember that it's all down to PERSONAL OPINION. Technical Questions for all brands go in their own forum.
Photo by Josephine Flohr, Elephant at Camp, Namibia

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Josephine Flohr,
Elephant at Camp, Namibia



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  #91  
Old 21 Feb 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powder85 View Post
Does anyone know when the bike is actually going to be starting to be delivery in Europe?
No - but in the meantime you can have a look at this in depth prereview of the T7...

https://youtu.be/1xBLs9_OYUI LOL...
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  #92  
Old 21 Feb 2019
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Originally Posted by powder85 View Post
Does anyone know when the bike is actually going to be starting to be delivery in Europe?
dealer in my town takes orders already, saying it maybe late May,
but other dealer saying not earlier then in fall...
Price is attractive comparing to 790R, less then 10k euros.
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  #93  
Old 28 Feb 2019
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It’s a no for me. The main problems are the complicated electrics and that the rear subframe is welded to the main frame and not bolted, a small spill could right off the frame.
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  #94  
Old 28 Feb 2019
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Originally Posted by crocks View Post
It’s a no for me. The main problems are the complicated electrics and that the rear subframe is welded to the main frame and not bolted, a small spill could right off the frame.
In my experience that doesn't happen, not with Yamaha XTs anyway... my 660Z had a one-piece frame and that was rock solid.

Bolt on subframes are primarily for dirt-bikes - for lighter weight and easier [shock] maintenance - I'd have no worries having a one piece frame on an adventure bike - especially one designed to carry a passenger and luggage.

Jx
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  #95  
Old 28 Feb 2019
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I agree with JMo for the same reasons.
If the frame is like the 660, it will take quite a prang to bend that subframe.
And if it isn't - like a CRF250L and many similar bikes – just stamp it back in line.

There may of course be plenty of better reasons not to like the 700.

Yamaha said today:
Ténéré 700 will be available at a special, launch price of £8399 (excluding OTR charges and accessories) for those who reserve online.
System will launch at 1pm 27 March!
Attached Thumbnails
Tenere 700 - The long awaited perfect adventure bike?-p1120172.jpg  

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  #96  
Old 1 Mar 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crocks View Post
It’s a no for me. The main problems are the complicated electrics and that the rear subframe is welded to the main frame and not bolted, a small spill could right off the frame.
complicated electronics??? where? abs and that's it, what ktm 790R potential customers supposed to say

Regarding frame, mine landed in the ditch many times and no problems, but years ago they built bikes from real steel, not from plastic...

For me a concern is an engine longevity, couldn't find any records even close to 100k km, and some reports of MT07 overheating etc.

Last edited by tremens; 1 Mar 2019 at 14:47.
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  #97  
Old 1 Mar 2019
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if it's anything like my XScrambleR 700, the engine will be the best bit.
Add proper suspension + the Tenere name and it'll be a winner.
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  #98  
Old 18 Mar 2019
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Somewhat sarcastic comparison of the Tenere T700 against the base model of KTM's 790 Adventure.
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  #99  
Old 19 Mar 2019
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to me new T7 looks like unfinished project, especially at the rear.
Also, what company launch new motorcycle after season...
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  #100  
Old 19 Mar 2019
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I bought a Tenere XT660Z in 2009 and for many years I said it was the best 'out of the box' travel bike with its high screen, rally cockpit, large fuel tank and a really wide gear box. It really helped me become a better rider offroad and I remember writing what a marvellous machine it would be if only it could be mated with BMW's 800cc twin and a wide ratio 6-speed box. But boy, was it heavy. And changing tubes was a nightmare with the deep wheel rims.

It seems ages ago that I sold the Tenere but to put dates into perspective, it was actually a year after Yamaha announced the T7. If the company had started deliveries of the T700 a couple of years ago it would have been a roaring success. But it didn't and Yamaha is now launching with what is really quite a dated specification. Times move on and KTM has really moved the goal posts with the 790 Adventure.

By comparison with the KTM 790 Adventure (base model) the T700 lacks decent fuel range, tubeless tyres, traction control, cornering ABS, offroad ABS, ride modes, and 20 bhp of fun. In addition the T700 is likely to be heavier.

What the T700 does have going for it is the price. Will that be enough?
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  #101  
Old 20 Mar 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis View Post
I bought a Tenere XT660Z in 2009 and for many years I said it was the best 'out of the box' travel bike with its high screen, rally cockpit, large fuel tank and a really wide gear box. It really helped me become a better rider offroad and I remember writing what a marvellous machine it would be if only it could be mated with BMW's 800cc twin and a wide ratio 6-speed box. But boy, was it heavy. And changing tubes was a nightmare with the deep wheel rims.

It seems ages ago that I sold the Tenere but to put dates into perspective, it was actually a year after Yamaha announced the T7. If the company had started deliveries of the T700 a couple of years ago it would have been a roaring success. But it didn't and Yamaha is now launching with what is really quite a dated specification. Times move on and KTM has really moved the goal posts with the 790 Adventure.

By comparison with the KTM 790 Adventure (base model) the T700 lacks decent fuel range, tubeless tyres, traction control, cornering ABS, offroad ABS, ride modes, and 20 bhp of fun. In addition the T700 is likely to be heavier.

What the T700 does have going for it is the price. Will that be enough?
Hi Tim - as you know, I was another early adopter of the XT660Z (in 2008), and like you for a long time considered it the best 'out-of-the-box' RTW style bike, and still do to be honest...

To answer your question - I think the T700 will have everything the 660Z had going for it, just ten years on...

In the meantime, while all the other manufacturers have stuffed their bikes full of electronic 'aids' and other marketing flim-flam, the new Tenere is reassuringly simple - something that manufacturers (of both two and four wheels) seem to forget is important to some people.

Of course the Starbucks crowd are going to get a hard-on about all the gubbins KTM are sticking on their bikes these days (traction control on a 690 thumper, really?), but as you know - out in the real world none of that crap matters - certainly not more than an inherently strong, simple and reliable machine.

As the old saying goes: If it ain't there, it can't go wrong or get broken...

I applaud Yamaha for sticking to their original Tenere ethos in that regard.

Jenny x

ps. I'm not saying there is not a place for uber-tech (although I'd question its validity on a genuine all-terrain bike that is actually going to be used in adverse riding conditions with any regularity) - but that in a broad market, filled with multiple manufacturers, why do we expect everyone to make exactly the same thing?

Leave the techno stuff to BMW and Ducati (and KTM, bless em), and similarly leave the opposite end of the market to the likes of Royal Enfield... I'd say this new Yamaha sits somewhere in the middle, above the KLR and below the F850... I'd say that is bang-on niche filling?
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  #102  
Old 20 Mar 2019
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I also bought a 660Z soon after they came out, took it straight to Morocco and enjoyed it immensely for what it was, despite it weighing some 30% more than my original ’83 600Z.
But I’ve had enough big singles and have long said a mid-sized P-twin makes a much better do-it-all, travel bike motor. Sadly, for me the amazingly economical CB500X was not that motor, but the grunty 270° CP2 sure is.

Quote:
... tubeless tyres, traction control, cornering ABS, offroad ABS, ride modes, and 20 bhp of fun. In addition the T700 is likely to be heavier...
The only thing I’d miss are TL tyres but I now know there are various ways of achieving that.
I’ve never knowingly ridden a bike with traction control, cornering ABS, off-road ABS or ride modes – things that I mostly associate with keeping crazy-horsepower sports bike riders from clogging up the wards.
Why would a torquey, 70-hp bike need ride modes? Because it can? If conditions are slippery, back off.
Having run an XSR7 for a year, the same, proven 70-hp* motor will do me nicely.
So will a 16-L tank, if the XT7 also averages 26kpl (400km).

(*I keep forgetting my XSR was restricted to ~48hp, tbh I never noticed as there was never a need to go over 6k rpm).

Along with the 850GS (probably), we are lucky enough to finally have such a choice of brilliant machines offering an alternative to the quarter-ton tanks and the 790 is one of them.
It will be much discussed and rightly admired, but like all KTMs, bought by the relatively few who value (or can use) it’s off-road attributes – or that image.
Meanwhile, the less dazzlingly sophisticated T700 will be a hit, like just about all the Teneres before it.
So it's taken years from being announced to reaching UK shops. So did the AT, iirc. Is there a hurry?

Quote:
… unfinished ... especially at the rear.
I’m afraid I really don’t know what that means ;-)

Quote:
Also, what company launch new motorcycle after season...
Abject buffoons, obviously! (remind me when 'the season' is again?)
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  #103  
Old 20 Mar 2019
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The T7 will be a sales hit for sure based on price alone it offers a good spec and a great all round platform.

It's too big for me, I'd love the engine but I don't need the height and weight so I'm looking at the smaller (cheaper end of the scale) if KTM bring out the 390 Adventure which lets be honest they could have developed a good one within a year of the 390 bikes coming to market, I might be interested however I wish yamaha would make a smaller lighter tenere using their mt03 engine as I think this would do everything I'm looking for and be even more affordable.

JMo hinted at a 300 cc Honda a while back too

I think the company that gets a good small adventure bike out soon for around the 5 grand mark will really see some great sales
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  #104  
Old 20 Mar 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMo (& piglet) View Post
In the meantime, while all the other manufacturers have stuffed their bikes full of electronic 'aids' and other marketing flim-flam, the new Tenere is reassuringly simple - something that manufacturers (of both two and four wheels) seem to forget is important to some people.
Triumph had the same attitude in the 1960s and 1970s—who needs anything more than a four-speed gearbox, who needs engines that don't leak oil? And Honda and the other Japanese manufacturers walked all over them.

And I bought Honda. With champagne tastes I really wanted the CB750/4 but my money salary dictated that I had to make do with the fabulous Honda 400/4, a wonderfully smooth four-cylinder engine with a six-speed gearbox that I took all over Europe.



For safety reasons ABS is now mandatory on motorbikes including the T700 and in the last twenty years the weight has become insignificant, as the chart above shows. Cornering ABS is a brilliant safety concept that recognises ABS needs to be more sensitive when cornering. It probably only adds a few grams in weight for the sensors but the T700 doesn't have it. Offroad ABS is a simple switch that allows the rider to maintain a reduced ABS function on the front wheel whilst turning it off on the rear to enable slide turns. With the T700 ABS is either all on or all off; there is no offroad mode. How much money did that save?

A lot of experienced riders will say the best traction control available is their right hand on the throttle, but the reality is that you can't get the mix of traction and limited slip that an electronic system will provide. So there will be times when a T700 won't make it up a difficult slope yet another bike with traction control will. Is having traction control somehow 'cheating'? Well if it is, so are knobbly tyres and we should all go back to road tyres.

Sure, I recognise (but don't particularly agree with) the argument that the more bits of complexity are added to a bike, the more there is to go wrong—that's the 1960s Triumph head set again.
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Last edited by Tim Cullis; 21 Mar 2019 at 08:55.
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  #105  
Old 20 Mar 2019
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Originally Posted by stuxtttr View Post
The T7 will be a sales hit for sure based on price alone it offers a good spec and a great all round platform.
no it won't, wanna bet?

BTW, T7 offer which good specs...don't see any.
This bike cannot be even compared to xt660z, which was tough, reliable machine and T7 engine is..well, too delicate IMO

Last edited by tremens; 22 Mar 2019 at 18:22.
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