I am fairly certain it is down to an age thing. Those old enough to remember going into what was then the common market will remember that that is what it was sold as, a common market. Cheap , fags and inexpensive holidays. Ted Heath did not tell us until we had signed that we would lose our 12 mile territorial waters and that within a relatively short time Spanish super trawlers would have emptied our fish stocks and decimated the fishing ports of Grimsby and other towns that relied upon the industry. Quotas for steel production were imposed and not long after British steel went tits up. Trade with New Zealand, Australia (butter and lamb) were restricted as we had to buy so much from within the Common Market, trade with the West Indies went the same with banana and sugar restrictions. Even in the early 70’s it was not all plain sailing and the Utopia the politicians would of had us believe did not materialise. Our shipyards could produce either war ships or commercial vessels but not both. Ask anyone who used to work at Cammel Lairds how that panned out for them?
What we did get was a massive bill for the common Agricultural policy to subsidise French farmers to keep on producing stuff we did not need or want (remember the wine lakes, butter mountains and beef stored in huge freezers?) as inefficiently as possible. There have been some benefits but I only see that they are grossly outweighed by the cons, restrictions and ever growing tighter regulations that grow year by year. Having spoken to many people about the subject I have to conclude that most people over 50 will vote to come out and those too young to remember all the things we have lost will vote to stay in as the current state of affairs is normality to them.
It won’t be all doom and gloom if we come out, people will not stop buying Rolls Royce engines, Scotch whiskey or many of the other world class products we supply and we will be able to start supplying again without quotas to restrict us. We can form our own trade agreements with the growing world such as India and China without the restrictions of Brussels and unelected, anonymous bureaucrats. I will be voting out and I suspect the result will depend upon are there more people over 50 in the UK than under?

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www.frothandflames.com
2012 Kawasaki W800
1997 NX 650 Dominator

One of the first things we were taught in economics was that whilst the rules of 'supply and demand' were normally king, exceptions had to be made with strategic industries and the example given was steel. If there's a war and you have no steel plants you are 'up the Suwannee without a paddle'. Same applies to shipyards—we are a maritime nation after all.

Oh so true, but you missed the bit about Britain not getting to the rules it wants and instead having to obey rules it didn't want.

I also have an ill feeling about the power wielded by Angela Merkel who appears to be a rule unto herself. She unilaterally decides to throw open the borders of Germany to what we now realise are predominantly young male economic migrants, and then a couple of months later is trying to force other countries to shoulder the burden. WTF.

An ill-fated attempt to stiffen their spine. Nice bit of history trivia and not well known.

Churchill sacrificed the 51st Highland Division to try to keep the French going after Dunkirk and my father-in-law spent the next five years as a POW.

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

It must have been pretty much concurrently that the British fleet in the mediterranean sank the French fleet lying at anchor once there was a possibility that it would throw it's weight behind the Vichy government that ruled in part of France.
French troops in the french overseas colonies also needed to have their palms read with regard to where their loyalties should lie, once the Republic collapsed.

Countries do not have eternal friends, only interests.

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Dave

From my post of 19 January...
Wars are about gaining power and possessions and used to fought totally with armies. China has found a new way of waging war and now owns vast tracts of the western world.

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

The Chinese are not dumb and are very difficult to understand for westerners, mainly because of their conception of time. The goals we have and measure in months or years, they measure in generations. That ownership of western assets and financial instruments started decades ago and, at the moment, it is a sword of Damocles over the heads of several countries, namely the US given the vast holding of US issued debt instruments by the Chinese State, Chinese State entities and Chinese companies in general.

Let's, however, look at that from another angle. Financial, currency and trade wars are nothing new to mankind. The issue with them, though, is that it starts there but usually escalates towards real war. And, Tim, let's be honest; right now several issues around the world are ripe for the start of a large scale war. There are several tensions, several issues here and there, escalations and provocations in several points of the planet which may end up in a large scale war. The worst of all this is that I am not fully convinced that a large war is a bad thing at this time...

AND the developing world too Tim.

It staggered me to see how much of SE and Central Asia has been bought-up, and/or built by the Chinese in these regions - and as a consequence, is now under their control.

Although I've never been there, it's a similar story in/around the African continent too, so I understand.

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Right Way Round ...

Currently visiting German speaking Switzerland, they, the Swiss, are awaiting some leadership from the UK regarding their own dispute with the EU; the latter comes down to the issue of free movement of people - the Swiss have voted in their own referendum to restrict future movement and their government have two years from that outcome to implement the wishes of the population. That two years expires next year, so everyone here is supposedly waiting to see what our own referendum decides on 23 June.

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Dave

Copper in particular, see this article from 2008: China's drive for mineral wealth

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Yes true, they are doing loads in SE Asia, I was reading a piece in the Bangkok Post the other day about China, they are even controlling the water flow in the Mekong, via Dams built, from some Province in China north of Laos. Due to not much rain in the Rainy Season quite a lot of places are having a bit of a drought and some rice fields are failing. The Mekong fills a lot of subsidiary rivers and lakes, but apparently only when China releases the water now.

Wayne

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The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

...and reflecting the loyalty of Airbus Group to its' EU/UK workers here last month, is the first model to roll off their newly completed production plant in that great European State:Alabama!



...also to be kept in mind by Airbus workers would be their 1998 offer to the Chinese government to move wing production from Chester to China in exchange for orders. Wing design & production being the "holy grail" of aircraft technology: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-may-move-wing-production-to-china-43640/ YOU DON'T GIVE IT AWAY.

Should Airbus again wish to make such an offer to our industrious Chinese cousins neither the Welsh or UK Government could block it as neither has Sovereignty; it would be a EU issue. Airbus wish to keep it this way and is the reason for the anxieties of Airbus re. BREXIT.

As with steel, so with airliners...

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Look no further than this top Eurocrat for proof of Brussels’ loathing for democracy. After Dutch voters had the gall to defy the EU last week, Fraser Cameron, a former senior adviser to the Commission, wrote this on why “it is time for an EU ban on referenda”.

“Referenda are becoming a huge problem for the EU. The latest result in the Netherlands on the Association Agreement with Ukraine is probably the worst possible outcome. If the turnout had been below 30% the Dutch government could have safely ignored the vote…
Undoubtedly there is a growing trend towards referenda. There have been over 50 in the last twenty years. Sometimes referenda are forced upon governments if there is sufficient voter support, as was the case in the Netherlands… Perhaps it is time for an EU ban on referenda!”

Pesky democracy, getting in the way of the European super-state…


UKIP’s Steven Woolfe's view:

“Here is the EU’s disdain for democracy exposed. Fraser Cameron worked as a senior adviser to the Commission for a decade and his is a view held by many in the corridors of Brussels. He and his fellow apparatchiks don’t want the people to have a say in the future development of the European Superstate.”

Who remembers voting for this jumped up little c**t?




...another day another revelation:-In aninterview with the Vice President of the European Parliament in which he claims the PM’s (call me "Dave") renegotiation is not legally binding after all. Alexander Graf Lambsdorff says Brussels “clearly went too far” during its negotiations with call me "Dave" and suggests the deal could be altered if we stay in the EU:

“their agreement is in no way a document of the European Union, but a text of hybrid character, which is unspecified and not legally binding”

Anyone who still thinks a reformed Europe is anything but a fantasy must surely have woken up by now? Vote leave. You know it makes sense.

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The malign influence of the EU extends to Africa also. The Common Agricultural Policy and it's massive subsidies creates huge surpluses which are then exported to Africa with further export subsidies. Local (African) farming is further rendered uneconomic by swinging EU import tariffs of up to 28%. In combination this makes food in the UK much more expensive, estimated at about $1000 per family per year than free trade would otherwise allow. This is actual cash, each year we have been in the EU and each year we remain in the EU and not the fictitious amounts the remainers "project fear" spuriously say we would be worse off by 2030 if we leave.

A by-product of this madness, since the land cannot sustain these now poverty stricken Africans they do what I would do in their place, seek a better life in Europe...but are met with tear gas and batten wealding EU border forces.


And we should remain in the EU why???

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I returned to the UK about a week ago after travelling in 3-4 countries of mainland Europe for various durations over 3 weeks.

After a week back here I have yet to see any UK TV news coverage of this item which was reported on many continental channels during my travels.
“Nuit Debout”: Dawn of a French Style [Color] Revolution? | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

Funny that.

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Dave

Possibly because its of little interest to the UK?