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View Poll Results: Should Britain leave the E.U. ?
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Yes
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109 |
50.00% |
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No
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46 |
21.10% |
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No.. But things MUST change
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38 |
17.43% |
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I don't care
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14 |
6.42% |
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Undecided
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11 |
5.05% |
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22 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastship
Many are the reasons why we MUST leave the EU; this being a motorcycle forum consider that the (unelected) EU commission actively legislates to eradicate motorcycles (contrary to their own regulations) and has passed or proposed many laws criminalising us for such egregious “crimes” as fitting a crash bar and compelling dealers to report to the "authorities" those of us who modify our own property contrary to their edicts. In small things great truths are revealed.
The EU oligarchs are on their back legs to ensure the status quo and to get us to vote in the “right” way and if we don't they will come back again and again as they did with Ireland until we vote “correctly”!
When contemplating just why these oligarchs wish to keep things as they are here is an example which may be considered a metaphor; The Mercedes Benz truck that takes the cheap goods to the ship in China costs £30k. The Mercedes Benz truck that collects those goods from the ship in the EU costs £130k. You can't buy the Chinese Mercedes Benz truck in the EU.
It is clear to see who benefits from such a state of affairs and ask the young people of Spain, Greece, Italy et al who dis benefits and if in a stronger, federalised EU with a neutered UK (that voted to stay in) will the youth of the UK face a similar fate? For those that don't keep up with these things youth un-employment in those places is as high as 60%.
When faced with the great and the good such as (Sir) John Major claiming they are acting in Britain's interests when advocating staying in you may ascertain in just whose interests they are acting by asking them just how they became multi millionaires on a civil servants pay.
Most of Europe acts under the old “Code Napoleon” in which the people are subservient to the state. In the UK (notionally) it is the opposite. The doctrine of the EU is one of total government the inevitable end point of which is totalitarianism and war. It is the European way, always has been and always will be. Grow a spine and vote leave. You know it makes sense.
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It's very hard to argue with those points... In fact I agree with them.
I dislike the EU. I'm not pro EU at all.
But perhaps 'Better the devil you know'
What is out future is we close the door to what is by far our biggest trading partner and access to skilled or cheap labour ??
New trade deals aren't going to just appear overnight and our products and services are not going to be cheap. We will end up in competition with the EU and I don't think it's battle we can win.
There are plenty of counties who can beat our prices on pretty much everything..
And we all know those childish beaurocrats in Europe will make us pay for leaving.
And what about the Billions in subsidies we receive from the EU ?? I think it costs every UK citizen about £130 a year for EU membership. I pay more to be in the AA.
Britain is not a global super power. It's a small Island and the actual global powers are not in awe of us any anymore. We can't scare anyone with our Navy and we dont have anything special to sell anymore.
I think if we do leave, it will be painful. There will be severe consequences.
It might be worth it in the long run. With that I agree..
But for those not nearing or in retirement with their own houses or nest eggs, its could be a very bitter pill to swallow and really hurt a lot of people.
So when this vote comes along, are you going to vote what suits the greater good of our nation or what makes you feel better about yourself.
It's a tricky decision and not to be taken lightly. The politicians will just do what suits themselves as always.
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22 Jan 2016
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Main difference between UK and Japan is they have a very strong and thriving industrial manufacturing sector. Ours got sold down the river years ago.
We don't invest in training and the training now given is a joke.
We have a trainee that's given a certificate in changing a wheel, really?
The only remaining manufacturing industries are now under foreign ownership, which to be honest usually do far better than when they were under British management.
Our economy is far too reliant on the financial sector.
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22 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XS904
Main difference between UK and Japan is they have a very strong and thriving industrial manufacturing sector. Ours got sold down the river years ago.
We don't invest in training and the training now given is a joke.
We have a trainee that's given a certificate in changing a wheel, really?
The only remaining manufacturing industries are now under foreign ownership, which to be honest usually do far better than when they were under British management.
Our economy is far too reliant on the financial sector.
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Agreed.
Including Japanese ownership of car assembly plants in the UK.
It is clear that the UK/GB would have to change its whole outlook in a manner to which you allude. But, again, the UK needs to do this in any case if globalisation of the world economy continues apace.
(I mentioned the Japanese work ethic which means a lot more than simply being prepared to undertake hands on work - it was the Japanese who took on the principle of Quality Control and developed it to the status of a semi-religion which may be in accord with their own "Zen").
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22 Jan 2016
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In rough figures
Japan has about 1 lawyer per 4000 head of population.
Too many lawyers in Japan, says Ministry of Internal Affairs | Majirox News
For the UK, we have about 10 times more per head of population (ie about 1 per 400), and, for comparison, the USA has 1 lawyer per 250 citizens.
(Mr Cameron was talking about another subject today, related to these statistics and mentioned earlier in a broad description of the UK - the compensation culture).
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Last edited by Walkabout; 22 Jan 2016 at 19:34.
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22 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout
(I mentioned the Japanese work ethic which means a lot more than simply being prepared to undertake hands on work - it was the Japanese who took on the principle of Quality Control and developed it to the status of a semi-religion which may be in accord with their own "Zen").
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Another very good observation, in the uk sector too much emphasis is put on quantity and efficiency over quality.
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22 Jan 2016
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5-11 year old statistics
Reference the title I mean the statistics published by the junior school in my link above - a teacher produced them for the pupils use; let's assume they are correct, for these purposes at least.
Health figures: The Japanese spend 3 times more on their health than we do in the UK. (3% to 1%).
Alcohol consumption: we drink a bit more, but hey, that's not excessive. 
Savings: private savings rates are extremely different - 3% UK to 13% for Japan.
Land under agriculture: How does Japan feed it's population??
Other:
To match the head of population per land area of Japan, the UK would need to increase the current population by about 20m people.
Each of the 4 named cities outside of London (Sheffield, Glasgow, Birmingham, Leeds) should about triple in size, assuming that enough meaningful employment would be developed to support such increases.
These stats probably identify some key differences between the two countries and why Japan can make a living in the world via its manufacturing capability, including the export of motorcycles of course.
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Last edited by Walkabout; 22 Jan 2016 at 23:15.
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23 Jan 2016
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Japanese Productivity
Quote:
Originally Posted by XS904
Another very good observation, in the uk sector too much emphasis is put on quantity and efficiency over quality.
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Thanks.
I have been reading this observation about the Japanese economy, which is quite astounding when considered fully:-
"it is not remarked often enough that, in terms of its working age population, Japan's growth has outpaced that of many of its advanced economy peers, not least the United States. On that basis, in 2000-07, Japan grew at a cumulative rate of 15%, almost twice as fast as the United States (8%) - the reverse of what headline growth rates show (10% and 18%). The difference is even bigger if the post-crisis years are also considered."
The "crisis" referenced therein is also called the "Great Financial Crisis" in the source document (below) i.e. that which occured in 2007-08.
Abstracted from: Is the unthinkable becoming routine?
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22 Jan 2016
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Cameron has turned his back on almost every other pre-election promise so why would the referendum be any different.
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22 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
Cameron has turned his back on almost every other pre-election promise so why would the referendum be any different.
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So you are saying that he won't hold a referendum???
I'm no dyed-in-the-wool Tory, so I had to google this for you, but here's a helpful link to the Conservative Manifesto so you can check the accuracy of what you just wrote...
(I did the link in Cameron Blue rather than my normal Corbyn red) 
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22 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Cullis
So you are saying that he won't hold a referendum???
I'm no dyed-in-the-wool Tory, so I had to google this for you, but here's a helpful link to the Conservative Manifesto so you can check the accuracy of what you just wrote...
(I did the link in Cameron Blue rather than my normal Corbyn red) |
I certainly hope he does. But it's not beyond comprehension that it will be delayed or cancelled with some bullsh*t reason. Or perhaps severely watered down in some way.
A manifesto pledge is just a half arsed promise to gain votes in my opinion. There is no legal obligation for them to hold a referendum is there ? He's not going to be re-elected so he's got nothing to loose. He's got 500 Million in the bank to ease his conscience.
But please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm the first to admit that I'm no political guru.
There is no doubt in my mind that there is already a contingency plan with a room full of spin doctors already in full preparation for that scenario.
Here's a link for some other broken pledges.
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/yvette-cooper/election-promises-broken_b_7949232.html]Nine Broken Promises From the First 100 Days of This Conservative Government
I haven't checked it's accuracy. You're doing such a good job of that. I don't want to ruin your fun 
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22 Jan 2016
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Politicians lied? You'll be telling me next BMWs aren't the ultimate ( as in last ) and I shouldn't eat yellow snow. 
This one is too big to avoid. The con will be pictures of princess Charlotte and a puppy the day they announce it, the repeat votes in2018, 19 & 20 until we get it right etc.
The Euro trough is too big for them to avoid. Heck it's even managed to keep our rejects like Kinnock, etc. in luncheon vouchers when even the UN wouldn't have them. They aren't going to set their pension pot on fire when the only alternative is waiting for God in the House of Lords.
Andy
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22 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
There is no legal obligation for them to hold a referendum is there
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For sure, politicos lie through their teeth - it is in the job description and their training - but in this case I seem to recall that a bill went through parliament for this one, some time ago perhaps??
Isn't that why it is constantly said that the referendum must occur by the end of 2017? 'Cos that is what the law says at present.
Anyone see a pattern appearing in the Jap statistics by the way??
A couple of more stats from the original link:
Japan has about twice the population, in rounded figures, but 3 times as many privately owned vehicles.
Their built up areas are 20% of land use, but ours is only 13%.
So, we might only have to build on another 7% of the UK to accommodate another 20 million workers (the earlier figure to match Japans' head of population to the total land area).
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23 Jan 2016
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Slightly off topic but this is to do with helping mitigate the housing crisis brought on by EU and non-EU migration.
I know the green belt is supposed to be sacrosanct and I appreciate there's some way to go with redeveloping brownfield sites, but I can't help thinking we need something really big to kickstart the solution to the housing crisis. There's no point building houses where there's no jobs, so in my mind one part of the solution is to move tens of thousands of government and other jobs out of London to new cities built on the green belt.
One site could be the fenland farmland south of Peterborough between Yaxley and Sawtry. It's on the main east coast rail line from London to Edinburgh and is next to the A1(M) so the complex transport infrastructure is already in place. There's even a small airfield at Connington (ex RAF Glatton) that could be extended back to its wartime runway lengths.
What government departments could be moved? How's about the Ministry of Defence in Whitehall for starters?
A similar suggestion from an MP for the Birmingham area: Move Government departments out of London and into the Midlands
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24 Jan 2016
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Should Britain leave the E.U. ???
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
He's not going to be re-elected so he's got nothing to loose
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I have voted both Labour and Conservative and to be quite honest even my neighbours dog would be better to have in than Corbyn, god help use if he gets his claws in
Wayne
Last edited by Lonerider; 24 Jan 2016 at 09:02.
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