I'm not much of a fan that we are directed by un-elected directors in the EU, and its a bureaucratic nightmare far too impressed with itself and not its citizens.

However, I will always vote in (and yes a bit more accountability please). I'd happily vote in and even consider losing some personal freedoms as long as we are bound close enough in Europe never to have another war.

I think we all forget that one part of the forming of the EEC was to draw nations closer together to stop rouge nutty leaders (there's been a few of them?) starting wars because we are bound closer together.

Its one thing that has worked very well over the past 60 years within Western Europe and as my boys get very close to 'conscript' age, I'm glad they aren't likely to be sent a cannon fodder into a war with Belgium because they are exporting that is cheaper than ours. There might be a few variations on that theme, but I hope you know what I mean.

I think The UK being in Euro makes us better friends with the rest of Europe. We're already right on the edge anyway!

Without sounding too American ...we are in a War already and have been since we went in to Iraq and Afghan, maybe even before that.....but not that many of our European Brothers (tongue in Cheek) are helping out

Nowt wrong with conscription, bring it back (I am not saying your boys Dave) It would do the youth of today some good as there is a lack of respect, lack of discipline, lack of motivation to work, I could probably go on if I thought about it for long enough. My 22 years service was the best thing I did and lets face it 1 or 2 years in the grand scheme of things is not long

Wayne

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The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

I like it that you guys are taking an interest in this thread.

To say something about a few points therein:

The USA finally came together as a single nation as a result of your civil war.
From just some of my reading about that event, all of the public-face issues that were in place at the time, such as slavery, were the fig leafs for the real reason for that civil war; the real reason was the imposition of the dollar bill across all of the States.
i.e. the single currency which is an absolute essential of any unified nation.

The campaigns about the referendum within the UK are just kicking off here now, following the usual dearth of sensible news reporting over the Christmas/New Year break (which, naturally, goes on for weeks).
A meeting in Brussels next month will cut a deal, be in no doubt about that, and then the money is on our govn calling a referendum as early as June 16 before the migrant situation in mainland Europe brings on any further heat into the arguments.

There is a mass of information out there about the aims and intentions of the EU commission, the "5 Presidents" etc. While these have been in place for quite a while, they are now openly avowed objectives of those bodies and individuals.
In a word, the aim is a single nation state for Europe, with a single currency (more or less in place for now), a single fiscal arrangement, and a single government.

Switzerland has a very open form of democracy: for instance, if any one of the cantons says no to a proposal then that proposal falls.
Hence their stability.
They also have virtually endless referenda, something which many in politics abhor because they feel the controls that places on their powers.

Agenda 21 of the UN is also relevant.

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Dave

IMO, I for one do not want all this

Wayne

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The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

From last year:
EU's 'Five Presidents' lay out eurozone vision, with timetable | EurActiv

To be done and dusted by 2025.

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Dave

It's happening right now.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-confront-view

The re-writing of history is an essential requisite of the revisionists.

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Dave

English has always been over the world, as is French, Spanish and Portuguese.....probably because we were the ones which mainly colonised the planet

I can agree with you there...we definitely don't want to end up like the US

Glad the TV will be good though, thought riding the bike would be better

Anyway we are getting

Wayne

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The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

I don't see that there is a risk that the European Countries end up like the US. That, however, was the utopia. But as utopia remained and will remain. We all have a long, very long history which can not be compared with the comparativelly very short time that the thirteen colonies existed before the independence. However, in Europe, that won't happen because it simply isn't possible. It simply isn't possible to erase histories which go back, in some cases, more than 1000 years, by decree. But it won't be for lack of trying!

Wayne, URRAY to what you said regarding military service. I, for one, also believe that the abolition of compulsory military service for all young men was something which left us all as societies at a loss.

davebetty, please kindly allow me a little something regarding your post. One thing was the EEC. A very good one as a matter of fact. Another substantially different thing is the EU, an absurd which has always been an absurd and which will keep on being an absurd till the day someone finally issues its death certificate and this game of extend and pretend ends once and for all. I truly hope that from the remants we all can recreate the EEC but, somehow, I doubt it. Too many hard feelings are being created between several different countries and I'm very much affraid that in the end even something like the former EEC won't be possible.

Out of Eu.

The problem with the EU is that it is an ideological project which keeps slamming into the hard facts of its own political realities.
Kind of like a drunk with his keys in the pub car-park after kicking out time, repeatedly fumbling with the locked door of the wrong car.
Eventually he will manage to get into his own car and crash it on the way home.
How many others will be killed in the process is the only outstanding question...
Square pegs & round holes... the whole thing.


(Brits bought property and ran businesses in Spain and the Med long before the EU came along, and they will do long after its gone)

I'm sure they'll soon produce some cogent arguments as to why we should leave.

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

A long way of saying nothing at all.

[QUOTE=ridetheworld;531580]i.e. nothing but vague sentiments with no clear vision about what the UK should be and will be without Europe.

[/QUOTE
There is clear vision, in contrast to the confused messages from our PM over the last 2-3 years of his pronouncements.

Here is the short version from December 2015: 33 pages in response to the series of one line questions.
http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcitlite.pdf
Who knew about the UNECE?

More to come on this subject.
No fear, minimum uncertainty, no doubt, just well constructed dialogue.
And, the leadership that I mentioned much earlier in this thread.

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Dave

"Britain is too poor, too weak and too stupid OR"


https://independentbritain.wordpress...anda-part-two/
A fine expose of the media campaign to do …............................ ...............well, what exactly?
What do the printed media, in their dotage while dying off, think they are achieving?

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Dave

Formed in 1947, these are the guys who make the key decisions in many areas of competency and who pass on those decisions to the middlemen of the EU who then pass those tablets of stone down to the club members.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ion_for_Europe

There are 56 members, not just the current 28 "little Europeans" of the EU; effectively, the EU is a sub-regional grouping when seen from the UN perspective.
The UK was a founder member. So was Russia, as was France but Germany was more of a late-comer along with Canada (correct, Canada).
Many of the ex-soviet countries joined in 1955, at the height of the cold war. Others signed up after the Berlin wall was breached.
Even Israel is a member of this European grouping (see the UN agenda 21); but they take part in the Eurovision song contest also.

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Dave