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  #76  
Old 6 May 2016
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DG requiremnets for shipping motorcycle with Air Canada

PanEuropean, yes you are 100% correct, the DG Section on AC site does say battery just needs to be safely and securely tied down in battery tray, I think where I got this misinformation was from talking to AC rep who told me that battery needed to be disconnected. When I mentioned this fact to the DGR dangerous goods rep he told me what you stated, battery just needed to be secure in tray without any possibility of a electrical short.

I glade you corrected me, this one less problem to deal with when picking up the bike over in Dublin. And for those who owned or have owned a BMW 1150 GS you know what an irritant it is to access the battery on the bike.

From reading this thread I see others have claimed that they were able to store their personal gear on the bike for shipment.

AC seemed pretty emphatic that I could not store any personal gear on the bike.

Brian
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  #77  
Old 7 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ride4Adventure View Post
AC seemed pretty emphatic that I could not store any personal gear on the bike.
Hi Brian:

My experience - shipping my motorcycle by air many times during the past 15 years - is that no air carrier will officially permit personal effects to be shipped with the bike (for example, in the saddlebags, or attached to the bike). That's the airline's official position on the matter.

I suspect that all airlines take this position because they want to minimize the risk of unacceptable goods (camp stoves, etc.) being shipped with the bike. It may also be a result of a conservative interpretation of the DGRs, which state that when a DG is shipped, it must be packed in accordance with the applicable packing instruction and not combined with any other materials (DG or not) which fall into a different UN classification.

However....

The reality is much more accommodating than the official position. Every single time I have shipped my motorcycle by air, I have showed up at the freight shed (where I drop the bike off) and asked the cargo acceptance agent if it is OK for me to put my helmet, riding leathers, boots, tankbag, maps, GPS, rainsuit, sunglasses, granola bars, etc. in the saddlebags, and every single time, the cargo acceptance agent has said "sure, no problem". Air Canada even alludes to this level of tolerance in their PDF (link provided two posts above) when they state that you can't ship personal effects with the bike, but you can ship "equipment and parts" as long as you provide an itemized list.

So, my suggestion to you is that you carefully inventory and document everything that you have that could reasonably be considered "equipment & parts", put all that stuff in the saddlebags, and after you drop the bike at the freight shed, stuff your riding gear and helmet in the saddlebags as well. I'm pretty sure that the cargo acceptance agent will permit you to do that, as long as he or she has a chance to visually inspect what is in the saddlebags.

Some air carriers are more relaxed than others, as you can see from the massively overstuffed rear cargo bag on the back of my motorcycle in the picture below, which was taken after the cargo acceptance agent and myself loaded the moto into the ULD for the flight to Europe. But, I don't think you could get away with that quantity of additional stuff these days.

Michael

Note the luggage on the back of the moto, and the tankbag...
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  #78  
Old 7 May 2016
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DG requirements for shipping motorcycle with Air Canada

PanEuropean

Well it can't hurt to see if AC Cargo will allow me to leave my riding gear
packed on the bike.

What is more innocuous than motorcycle riding gear.

Hopefully, AC personnel in Montreal will be accommodating when I drop off the bike.

Brian
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  #79  
Old 8 May 2016
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Hi Brian:

I will be extremely surprised if you encounter any difficulties at all shipping your protective clothing in the saddlebags of the motorcycle.

Michael
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  #80  
Old 9 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanEuropean View Post
Here is a link to the most recent post on Air Canada's website about shipping motorcycles by air. It is a very comprehensive explanation of everything that is involved, for example, fuel tank 1/4 full or less, no need to disconnect the battery, you have to fill in the DGR form yourself, etc. Much to my surprise, Air Canada is now permitting some materials to be shipped in the saddlebags along with the bike... historically, airlines have insisted that saddlebags be empty.

This article contains prices and information valid for the period May 1 to September 30, 2016.

Click here: Air Canada Cargo’s Fly Your Bike Program - 2016



Michael
I'm amazed that they permit the bike with so much fuel on board since it can potentially leak and fill hold with flammable fumes. Some airlines will not even permit a used camping stove if it uses liquid fuel, even if fuel canister is empty.
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  #81  
Old 9 May 2016
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Michael, thanks for all the information you have provided here. My question, since all my riding gear will not fit in the panniers, is it possible to strap a bag of riding gear onto the rear seat?
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  #82  
Old 9 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMurr View Post
I'm amazed that they permit the bike with so much fuel on board since it can potentially leak and fill hold with flammable fumes. Some airlines will not even permit a used camping stove if it uses liquid fuel, even if fuel canister is empty.
Vehicles & camping stoves are two entirely different things. Vehicles are designed so that the fuel will not leak and fumes will not leak, and it is not possible for a vehicle to be loaded in any way other than right side up. It's also not possible for a properly secured vehicle to overturn in flight.

Camping stoves are not designed with particular attention paid to leak prevention or fume release, and they could be loaded upside down or sideways, and could overturn in flight. Plus, the nature of the fuel is different - camping fuel is generally more volatile than auto fuel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowriding View Post
Michael, thanks for all the information you have provided here. My question, since all my riding gear will not fit in the panniers, is it possible to strap a bag of riding gear onto the rear seat?
Personally, I would not bet on it. Once you start securing cargo to the outside of the moto, you begin to get into a grey area. I doubt that any cargo acceptance agent would refuse a helmet hanging off of a helmet hook on the side of the bike, but a bag full of stuff strapped to the rear seat becomes a judgement call on the part of the cargo acceptance agent that would be difficult to protest against.

Give it a try. If your bag gets refused, you can just check the same bag in as checked luggage when you board the aircraft with your passenger ticket. Personally, I think you would enhance your chances of success if the bag only contained one or two bulky items (for example, your riding suit and your helmet). But, it's 'iffy' - it all depends on how the agent interprets policy.

Michael
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  #83  
Old 12 May 2016
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Air Canada

Hi, I'm New to the site and wanted to add my two cents. It is true that Air Canada have or HAD great rates on "naked" uncrated bikes. As a freight forwarder who is just next door to AC and who recommends their clients to use...
1) what they may not tell you at the time of your call to the 1-800 line is that all motor cycles that have contained gas at one point are considered DG for Air transport. You will need to employ a company to create the DG declaration and labeling for the bike.
2) The Air Canada routes that you can send the Naked bikes are routes in which they fly directly and with the larger size aircrafts.
3) To make sure the bikes are safe while in the aircraft the batteries will have to be disconnected and the fuel drained to less than 25% of the tank allowance.

Hope that will help anyone who may be thinking shipping directly with AC.

If shipping from Vancouver you are welcome to contact me. We can also can crate bikes for transport.

Sorry if this repeats any of the other 6 pages of messages.

Bob


Quote:
Originally Posted by stubdetoe View Post
Air Canada Motorcycle Shipment Insane deal!

Just got quoted shipment of my bike from Toronto to Heathrow for $1000 Cdn, all in on a pallet in the belly of a wide body Air Canada. If I was to book my flight the cost would drop to $700!! Two weeks ago I was quoted $3250 for the same flight plus about $400 in fees at either end. You can only book 30 days prior to departure, so get your guaranteed quote for the next year sooner than later. Apparently these prices will be in effect for the rest of 2015, and they will soon be adding more destinations world wide.

The outgoing flights must originate from Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver and go to many European and South America destinations, basically wherever AC flys wide body jets for similar rock bottom prices.

These prices can be booked direct with Air Canada Cargo in Toronto, or through one of their forwarding companies that they deal with regularly. I use Roddy Warriner​ at Motofreight in the UK--a fellow GS rider himself--he will treat you fairly and well. If you are shipping into Canada, see him first as he can get you the same deal and handle all the Dangerous Good papers at that end. He can also help with paperwork from North America destinations. He knows his stuff.
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  #84  
Old 13 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly-your-bike- YVR View Post
Hi, I'm New to the site and wanted to add my two cents. It is true that Air Canada have or HAD great rates on "naked" uncrated bikes. As a freight forwarder who is just next door to AC and who recommends their clients to use...
1) what they may not tell you at the time of your call to the 1-800 line is that all motor cycles that have contained gas at one point are considered DG for Air transport. You will need to employ a company to create the DG declaration and labeling for the bike.
2) The Air Canada routes that you can send the Naked bikes are routes in which they fly directly and with the larger size aircrafts.
3) To make sure the bikes are safe while in the aircraft the batteries will have to be disconnected and the fuel drained to less than 25% of the tank allowance.

Hope that will help anyone who may be thinking shipping directly with AC.

If shipping from Vancouver you are welcome to contact me. We can also can crate bikes for transport.

Sorry if this repeats any of the other 6 pages of messages.

Bob
Hey Bob,

I am in the process of booking my flight with AC and have had a pretty good experience so far. They were very clear around the DG part and even told me were to get it and all kinds of information. Very quick replies by both mail and over the phone.

Regarding the battery, agreeing with Bob and maybe confusing some of the above statements, I was also explicitly told that the battery needs to be disconnected. This was repeated on multiple occasions. Fuel tank needs to be near empty as per your statement.

Thomas

Last edited by wipe-out; 13 May 2016 at 23:02.
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  #85  
Old 13 May 2016
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Oh and regarding personal items - anything that is allowed to go on a plane and is within your panniers will be fine. I was really happy to find out about that. But it is panniers and/or top boxes only. I was informed that a duffel on the back of your bike will not be accepted.

Hope that helps.
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  #86  
Old 14 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly-your-bike- YVR View Post

Hi, I'm New to the site ... As a freight forwarder...

1) ....You will need to employ a company to create the DG declaration and labeling for the bike.
Nonsense!

3) To make sure the bikes are safe while in the aircraft the batteries will have to be disconnected and the fuel drained to less than 25% of the tank allowance.
More Nonsense! (the bit about disconnecting the battery - note that most motorcycles only have one battery)

Hello Bob:

I'm sorry to have to call you out on your ignorance and self-promotion, but:

1) Motorcycle shippers absolutely, positively DO NOT have to pay anyone to fill out a DG declaration. It is a simple form that the shipper can fill out themselves. See post #78 a bit earlier in this same discussion, it contains detailed instructions for filling out the (very simple to fill out) DG declaration.

2) It is not necessary to disconnect the battery on a motorcycle. Go read packing instruction 900, and pay attention this time when you read it.

The incorrect information you have published in your post does a disservice to the freight forwarding industry.

Michael
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  #87  
Old 14 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wipe-out View Post
Oh and regarding personal items - anything that is allowed to go on a plane and is within your panniers will be fine.
Uh, not necessarily. Strictly speaking (meaning, if the cargo acceptance agent interprets the DG regulations very literally), you can't have a 'mixed shipment' that contains both DGs and non DGs in the same 'packaging' (the 'packaging', in this context, being the motorcycle itself). This is why the airlines typically say that you can ship associated equipment with the motorcycle (tools, etc.), but not personal effects.

In reality, most cargo acceptance agents will cut the shipper a bit of slack when it comes to what they put in the panniers. But, to be on the safe side, and to avoid disappointment when dropping off the motorcycle, it's best to only load the panniers with personal effects that could reasonably be interpreted as being 'associated equipment' for the motorcycle, for example, riding suits, helmets, rainsuits, boots, stuff like that.

I'm going to guess - based on personal experience - that the majority of cargo acceptance agents will be pretty tolerant of stuff shipped in the panniers - but give both yourself and the cargo acceptance agent every possible reason to deem the contents of the panniers to be 'associated equipment'. And, finally, be aware that if the cargo acceptance agent does refuse to allow personal effects to be shipped in the panniers, they are within their rights to do so - because a very strict, literal interpretation of the DGRs does not permit personal effects to be shipped with the 'DG' (the motorcycle).

Michael
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  #88  
Old 14 May 2016
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Good hints, thanks.

Battery is confusing, I was told explicitly it needs to be disconnected. Guess I will see when I get there, just a couple of boltes on the F800GS so not too worried...
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  #89  
Old 16 May 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wipe-out View Post
Battery is confusing, I was told explicitly it needs to be disconnected.
Rather than relying on hearsay, or someone else's incorrect and uneducated opinion - or, worse still, passing on hearsay or someone else's incorrect and uneducated opinion - go to the Dangerous Goods Regulations book and see what the actual rules are.

The packing instruction applicable to vehicles (packing instruction 900) states that if the vehicle has a spillable liquid battery, it has to be securely fastened and protected in a way that prevents damage and short circuits. If the battery is properly installed in the motorcycle (in other words, it is installed the same way the manufacturer put it there in the first place), then it is securely fastened and protected against damage and short circuits.

Michael
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  #90  
Old 17 May 2016
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This morning I dropped off my motorcycle at the Air Canada Cargo facility in Montreal. My BMW is being shipped over to Dublin Ireland.

It was a pretty simple and painless ordeal

I received my dangerous goods form for the bike

Presented that to Air Canada personnel.

I drove my bike into their warehouse facility

The bike was weighed

I was instructed to ensure that the fuel tank was less that 1/4 full, which it was.

I was not questioned about my the state of my battery. The DG rep I was dealing with who has been in the business for decades said that so long as the battery is secured in its tray, everything is fine. No need to disconnect anything.

Once the bike was weighed, someone came by and performed a security inspection on the motorcycle, checking items in the panniers and top case. They took some swaps of my gear in the panniers and had a sniffer device, looks like they were checking for explosives. They asked if I had anything flammable on the bike or had any sort of pressurized containers, which I did not. Aside from that, they didn't seem to care what other items I choose to pack in my panniers. I left my motorcycle helmet attached to the side of the bike. The keys had to be left in the ignition.

They did express concern about a MSR fuel bottle that I had attached to the outside of one of my panniers. I told them that the bottle was new and had not yet been used. They recommended that the bottle be stored in one of the side cases, out of sight, fuel bottles tend to freak out the safety people.

The DG rep warned me that once I used the MSR fuel bottle I would not be about to ship the bike back with it. He said if you have any items, i.e. fuel bottle, camp stove that even has scent of gasoline on it, they will block the shipment.

Hopefully my bike will arrive on the other side of the pond in one piece.
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