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Photo by Igor Djokovic, camping above San Juan river, Arizona USA

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Igor Djokovic,
camping above San Juan river,
Arizona USA



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  #1  
Old 29 Jan 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris of Japan View Post
The other day, an acquaintance at a Japanese motorcycle manufacturer asked me why Europeans would travel on Japanese bikes when they have a choice of European bikes with an image of being travel bikes.
I really couldn't give an answer, so I though I would ask the rest of the community about their choices.
In this case, "Image" is a sort of man made illusion, or perhaps a delusion? History and reality may tell a different story.

The fact is, the Japanese have been producing world class "travel bikes" since the 1970's. These models have also OUT SOLD BMW ... and ALL Euro brands combined ... by 20 to one ... as a conservative estimate, at least here in North America.

Maybe your buddy never heard of the Honda Gold Wing, ST1100, ST1300,
Yamaha Venture (now discontinued), FJR1300 to name just a few?

Kawasaki and Suzuki also made BIG travel bikes years ago (Voyager, Calvalcade). Kawi currently still does well with their Concours 1400, which compares to the big six BMW at nearly half it's price. Suzuki has the successful V-Strom, an excellent travel bike that I've crossed continents on ... 90K miles.

The Honda Gold Wing is a hugely popular bike in North America, probably not so much in EU, can't confirm that.

Another obvious answer as to why Japanese over Euro is the fact that BMW have made several serious mis-steps over the years, putting off or losing thousands of customers as a result. They also cultivated a reputation for arrogance that is not an illusion. But that was "Then".

In the last decade BMW have made great strides and done very well. During the same period, the Japanese have not done enough to compete, remained static (stagnate? ) while BMW drive forward pushing tech limits, improving customer service and remaining competitive price wise too.

So ... there is my short answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris of Japan View Post
So, why did YOU choose a Japanese or a European bike?
Seeing as the last time a "which is better" thread was started it degenerated into name calling, maybe we should keep it to the reason you personally chose the bike you did.
Can't pick one bike, have owned 50+ since about 1962, plus experience from testing bikes for a magazine for 20 years. (add 50 more)

Growing up in California, BMW wasn't much of a presence until the 1980's. But, if truth be told, my first two bikes were BOTH "European". First was a 1960 Triumph Tiger Cub (200cc single). I pushed that bike more than I rode it and it never ran right. (mostly due to lack of mechanical acumen)

Next bike was a late 50's Vespa 150. Great scooter that took me everywhere. But it was not perfect. Next came a Honda 50 Super Cub. An epiphany!

Not every Japanese bike was so good but suffice to say my introduction to Japanese bikes left a lasting impression ... but took a while to sink in just HOW GOOD the Honda really was. (I was only 16)

Continued with Euro bikes, racing Triumph and Bultaco as a teen, Motocross & Desert racing. They ALL broke down. Soon after, me and buddies got the crazy idea to go to Mexico on surf trips on our bikes.
Several Honda dual sport bikes followed. NONE broke down. Slowly I began to get the clear picture on Japanese bikes.

Lots of bikes since including BMW, KTM, Guzzi, BSA, Husqvarna, Triumph and ALL the big four ... and at least 50 test bikes including HD, Buell and on and on.

Currently own a Suzuki DR650 and a 1050 Triumph Tiger.
But, really, I'm a Japanese bike guy. They stand up to hard use, even torture and almost NEVER break down. Important with a travel bike.

PS: Chris, Have you ever toured a Japanese bike manufacturer? I was lucky enough to get a tour of Yamaha, round '93. Also got a tour of Triumph in 2003 and BMW, Spandau, Berlin, 1993.

Nothing comes close to Yamaha. If you can manage it, do it.
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Old 29 Jan 2015
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I can certainly say why I started traveling on Japanese bikes - because at the time (early 70's) everything else, without exception, was total cr@p. Bear in mind that this was my personal opinion formed by a multitude of factors such as the social standing of British bikes at the time, style, engineering standards and the seeming reliability (or rather, lack of) of anything British owned by friends.

BMWs were for people my age now and as for anything else European - all the Spanish smokers, Ducati etc, I lumped them all together with the Soviet block two strokes as old tired designs without style or much substance. As value for money compared to the Japanese offerings, they all fell well short. Had it not been for the Japanese "invasion", or had they arrived five years later than they did I probably wouldn't have bothered - I would not have bought British. I wouldn't be biking now, and my life would have taken several different turns - maybe. I owe everything I am to a Yamaha.

So how does that affect me now? Being old enough to not bother with the style elements any more I can see the production engineering shortcomings of Japanese bikes a lot more clearly and there's no doubt the Euro bikes have at the very least caught up. It might even be argued that the roles have reversed, with the Euro stuff looking the more modern and the Japanese designs looking, if not old, at least somewhat directionless and conservative. Nevertheless old prejudices die hard and this year's purchase will be a Honda. As others have said reliability is the no 1 priority for a travelling bike and after a lifetime of riding them I know what I'm getting.

I've had and known too many experiences of getting there on a Triumph but getting back on a recovery truck.
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Old 29 Jan 2015
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I wanted a twin-cylinder for smoothness but I didn't want a big GS, Varadero, 990 or Caponord. The choice of mid-size, multi-cylinder bikes back in 2008 was the new BMW F800GS, a new Honda XL700V or a second-hand Honda XRV750 Africa Twin. Although I seriously considered a Yamaha XT660Z Tenere, I went for the BMW.
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Old 29 Jan 2015
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Originally Posted by Wildman View Post
I wanted a twin-cylinder for smoothness but I didn't want a big GS, Varadero, 990 or Caponord. The choice of mid-size, multi-cylinder bikes back in 2008 was the new BMW F800GS, a new Honda XL700V or a second-hand Honda XRV750 Africa Twin. Although I seriously considered a Yamaha XT660Z Tenere, I went for the BMW.
I think the parallel twin KLE650 versys was around in 2008.
I had one about 3 years ago and wrote a review at that time:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...s-thread-65709

There is no brand loyalty in my case! I bought it because I was casting around for a change of bike and, talking with some guys who were riding them at the time, the model appeared to be une bonne idee.

So, at that time I had two Japanese bikes.
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Old 29 Jan 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildman View Post
I wanted a twin-cylinder for smoothness but I didn't want a big GS, Varadero, 990 or Caponord. The choice of mid-size, multi-cylinder bikes back in 2008 was the new BMW F800GS, a new Honda XL700V or a second-hand Honda XRV750 Africa Twin. Although I seriously considered a Yamaha XT660Z Tenere, I went for the BMW.
Did you consider the DL650? Cheaper, more powerful, more comfortable and better handling than anything else under 900cc.
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Old 29 Jan 2015
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There's an interesting mix in the responses in here to the original question; the mix of reminiscence about the good old days and how the manufacturing of one nation in particular was superceded by that of another, along with the answers that the OP is probably seeking - i.e. how modern bikes are chosen to be purchased.

At least so far no one has said that they bought a bike after reading a test report by a journalist.
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Old 1 Feb 2015
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Did you consider the DL650? Cheaper, more powerful, more comfortable and better handling than anything else under 900cc.
Never considered it. Just didn't float my boat. Personal choice.
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Old 29 Jan 2015
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Originally Posted by mollydog View Post
But, if truth be told, my first two bikes were BOTH "European". First was a 1960 Triumph Tiger Cub (200cc single). I pushed that bike more than I rode it and it never ran right. (mostly due to lack of mechanical acumen)
I had one of those also, and a 250cc Matchless and I was riding a BSA bantam quite a lot back in the 60s but it was not in my ownership.
They all broke down at different times in different circumstances: but that is why I remember those bikes and not so much the modern universal Jap machines (UJM).
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