I wanted a twin-cylinder for smoothness but I didn't want a big GS, Varadero, 990 or Caponord. The choice of mid-size, multi-cylinder bikes back in 2008 was the new BMW F800GS, a new Honda XL700V or a second-hand Honda XRV750 Africa Twin. Although I seriously considered a Yamaha XT660Z Tenere, I went for the BMW.

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

I think the parallel twin KLE650 versys was around in 2008.
I had one about 3 years ago and wrote a review at that time:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...s-thread-65709

There is no brand loyalty in my case! I bought it because I was casting around for a change of bike and, talking with some guys who were riding them at the time, the model appeared to be une bonne idee.

So, at that time I had two Japanese bikes.

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Dave

Did you consider the DL650? Cheaper, more powerful, more comfortable and better handling than anything else under 900cc.

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Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman

There's an interesting mix in the responses in here to the original question; the mix of reminiscence about the good old days and how the manufacturing of one nation in particular was superceded by that of another, along with the answers that the OP is probably seeking - i.e. how modern bikes are chosen to be purchased.

At least so far no one has said that they bought a bike after reading a test report by a journalist.

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Dave

I believe many can be prompted to buy a new bike from bike reviews.

Based on the feed back we got at City Bike (San Francisco) for the 20 years I was there, I found many advertising dealers would often say a customer mentioned reading the City Bike review of the bike in question ... and just had to see it in person and take a test ride. Many sold as a result. Most buyers read ALL reviews in every mag before buying, I DO believe they influence buyers to some extent.

I was rather proud of one case: the owner of a BIG multi line dealer claimed he sold 3 new V-Strom's based on my review ... and ended up selling 10 in that month. That is a BIG deal! Had to scrounge them from other, far away dealers to fill the orders.

Another writer at City Bike reviewed the new Ducati MultiStrada (2007).
Local dealer followed up and invited customers for test rides based on how much response he got from our bike review. He sold 17 Multi's in two weeks ... at around $20,000 a copy !!

A good review can influence readers to buy ... or to at least check out a particular bike. Buying motorcycles is an emotional response, not always thought out or logical. But certain things can trigger interest if you know your audience ... and if they know you.

Mollydog what you say is soooooooo true..........


So in some way we can blame bike review's for the type of bikes that are on the market. Which is the same as last year but with more power. So many times I read some bike writer who is testing, some bike or other that has 182 BHP. Which is 2 BHP over last year's model. Then go's on to say that the two extra BHP makes all the difference. Or it wheelie's all over the place. Great stoppies. I need a bike that is low on maintance. will run for ever. Do 100 MPG, and cruse at 90+. Easy on my Azz. and will carry luggage.


Do they make one? not that I've seen.
John933

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To buy petrol in Europe. Pull up at station. Wait. Get out a 20 Euro note, then ask someone to fill up the bike. Give person money. Ride away. Simple.

Back to Jap over European. I go for Jap, because, they are more reliable, don't leak oil, spare's are easy to come by, and most place's can fix them. European bike's where in my younger day's. When you went out in the morning to start them up. Would they go. You alway's had to have a plan "B" to get to where ever you where going with a European bike. A jap bike, was go out side, press the tit and she would fire up no problem. As long as you changed the oil, plug's, and filters. They would run for ever. But I stated my biking day's on a Honda, so was kind of spoilt.
John933

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To buy petrol in Europe. Pull up at station. Wait. Get out a 20 Euro note, then ask someone to fill up the bike. Give person money. Ride away. Simple.

Try telling that to someone kicking frantically at an xt 500 on a cold damp January morning in the peeing rain or riding a Honda cb 550 in the rain on two - no three - no one - ooops none cylinders Hic Hic blat phart. cough vrooom vrroooom back to one cylinder. - me thinks there are some rosy specs being worn here. Jake. It wasnt always the europeans that led the dance of death.

I still maintain that the Japs finished off the Brit bike manufacturing effort: I agree that they did not start the decline but they participated in the fall - putting in the bayonet to finish off the incipient corpse which was gasping at the time: put another way, they provided the customers with a better alternative in the market.
All the earlier businesses going bust, or amalgamating badges (Matchless/AJS for instance) was the prelude, as was occurring in the car industry - I well recall when Datsun started their dealerships here in the 60s.
Hey ho, that's business and lo and behold the likes of Triumph have risen from the ashes (dare we mention CCM here?)
Me!


The workforce were also very bloody minded at times, but true enough - mutual suicide from both sides of the workspace.
Now we have Japanese working methods in much of our manufacturing which they copied from someone else - I don't quite recall who, it's well over twenty years since I studied this topic.
Very recently a Brit has been appointed as the worldwide CEO for the McDonalds fast food business, so times have changed.

I quite believe it: I was just saying that those in here (all half dozen of us?) haven't said as much.
I haven't read a bike review in printed form in a number of years - not sure how long ago. Things have moved along - come to think of it, the "review" type of posts in here are quite disjointed, in a funny sort of way.

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Dave

PS
Does this thread really belong in the pub?
It contains some very considered ideas IMO - maybe material for "which bike".
Just a thought.

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Dave

I don't buy Japanese bikes these days for reasons really nothing to do with the products that they build which i think are now generally of a good to very high quality.

But i won't go into my reasons at all its a personal thing.

Right lets hold on to them hats !!!!! - here we go.

Now i am very particular to my very rosey tinted specs - comes with age me thinks - But to say the Japs were building quality back in the 70's seems to be stretching it more than a little bit

The actual build quality of many of the bikes was simply appauling, They were often very heavy,handled like bags of potatoes, paint peeled - that's if they were painted my Yamaha (an xs 1100 sport) had no paint on the underside of the tank, the engine paint peeled within months, chrome 1 micron thick if you were lucky and the downpipes rusted quicker than a Lancia beta.

Engines were often reliable but dont forget the many were not - design failures chocolate cams etc come to mind - you just do not hear of the failures so much these days. Even the premium jap stuff of the day were not in the same league as the premium European built bikes.

Generally the bikes rusted the electrics could not cope with wet conditions, (am i talking about jap or italian here - hard to tell isn't it they were both bad) but the japs also added cheap frames some were pressed steel and fairly poor quality with flex very common. cheapest of the cheap brakes, suspension and tyres all built down to a budget for very dry climates in The wet cold UK - They were terrible.

Performance wise against European competition at the time they were poor (i owned Ducatis, Laverdas, Moto guzzis and BMW's during that period the laverda was very very reliable ( and had jap electrics !), the Ducati i also used as an everyday bike and travelled often between Cornwall and Scotland it never let me down My BMW r65 was very reliable and my bmw r80 and r100s was exceptionally good. (my Guzzis were generally poor on the reliability front and worse than the japs on finish -i have owned several since that time all have been pretty unreliable - but they are still my favourite bike !!


These days I think the Jap's Builds good quality at the budget, with good engines and electrics if largely bland bikes in my eye (rose tints coming on here).

But look to quality stuff like KTM , Norton (Big price) certainly - Ducati and even to a degree Moto guzzi have upped the quality control and reliability and finish and build in many instances and i would say (slipping on those specs again- are again ahead of Japan on build, quality, design and materials. (I do not include BMW here as they sold themselves down the river to the marketing men big style).

Anyway give me a bike designed and built in a European factory with its foibles, failings and eccentricities (moto Guzzi , Norton and to a degree KTM any day over a bland bit of tin from the land of the rising sun.

By the way i currently run a ducati engined cagiva a 750 with 60hp good mid range torque, very reliable weighs in at 180kgs, thats quite a bit lighter than many jap 650's with far better and more usable power, suspension etc. and its 20 years old and still going strong.

On the main content of this subject though it doesn,t really matter what you choose - most bikes will do the job to a reasonable degree - you just need to chose your route and the area you ride to suit.

You haven't missed much in the mags. Not really what they used to be, IMHO, but the Brit mags at least let the writers stretch their legs a bit and get deeper into a bike's personality. The USA mags are terrible at this. A paragraph or two and that's it ... no depth, no real insight provided. Most of the mags are ALL ads ... even more than before.

I have ridden/owned both European and Japanese bike, BMW, Suzuki, Honda and loved them all. They all had there own little quirks which made them unique in there own right
At the moment I have my first Yamaha (XT600E 03)
Why did I go with it? Well after riding off road for about 3 years it was time I went back to road riding and I was also getting the travel bug and eventually wanted to ride my bike in another country. After doing a lot of research on the different types of bike which are good for adventure travel i.e. KLR, GS, XT, DR etc I ended up with the XT by chance as I saw it on the pages of this site, went and had a look, it is pretty much good to go with the mods and the price and milage were good. So home it came.

Wayne

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The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

Never considered it. Just didn't float my boat. Personal choice.

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand