I just read this .. and a thought came to me....

velocette 500 has held the 24 hour land speed record for a 500cc bike since 1961 ( and still hold it) Not bad for a crap old design bike running on points, lucas electrics, monograde dino oil and crossply rubber tyres

The York to London 4-Horse chariot record held by Biggus Dickus and his slave #LXIX set in AD49 still stands. This despite the large number of naked blue-painted people along the route throwing things.


Sadly, I believe this record like the Velocette one are likely to remain, as only a large company could afford to break them and to do so would have little commercial value. You can imagine the marketing man saying "Vello-who???"


;-)


Andy

Possibly BMW were thinking similarly, but with a different conclusion, when they put in their effort for the 2014 TT with their 1000cc inline 4 cyl.

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Dave

Yes it was a sad day when my local Velocette dealer closed down. And as it was only a couple of years ago I remember it well.

Thing is I'm sure the Velo is probably the better bike - which is why all the local (or even national) owners kept the business going for so long. The Kawasaki drinks fuel like there's a hole in the tank, is a p.i.a. to keep in tune, is uncomfortable and tiring to ride and deserves its reputation of being likely to kill you if you don't concentrate when riding it. It's the only one of my current bunch of wrecks (and from memory the only bike I've ever owned) I've never taken out of the country.

But I would never ever have bought a Velo - or even it's butch big brother, Vincent - even when they were giving them away in the 70's. Not unless I needed a boat anchor anyway. The oil leaks represented the middle age owners incontinence, the chuffing noises were their smokers cough and their stately progress looked like failing mental faculties. All stuff I saw in my grandparents.

On the other hand the scream of the Kawasaki's engine, the way the front would lift out of corners, the transition from Clark Kent to Superman as the revs rose - it needed as much adrenalin as petrol to get you down the road. The Brits were selling a bike, the Japs were selling an interesting future, a lifestyle, - you'd be a road god on the H1, the local plumber on the Velo (although my local plumber actually rides a 30's Brough these days ! ).

Now, complete b@ll@cks though all of that is, it's what the Japs brought to the bike world and it's why I still look east if I'm in the market for something new. I might look at Euro offerings but tend to spend my money in the orient. Brainwashed? - my psychiatrist says not, but I did buy one of those Japanese sportscars, Rotus or Lotus or whatever they're called

jake said - Give me a bike designed and built in a European factory any day
[/QUOTE Walkabout
These days, it is very difficult to achieve this; probably impossible. My 1990s TTR600 was badged as a Yamaha and assembled in Italy (the "Belgado" bike).


Try visiting the Moto guzzi factory in mandello de lario, Italy The factory dates back to the early days of Moto guzzi, the bikes are designed and built on the site, they have wind tunnel test centres, the museum and some of the old boys testing and building the bikes are almost as old as the history of the marque. I think the only major change is they stopped casting their wheels on site a few years back and moved the foundry to another place up the road. Built the way they used to be foibles and all. The factory dates from 1921 - they upadted it a bit - they put a new sign on the roof on 2007 and a new sign on the gates. !

Many of the KTM's are designed and built in Austria, as well as Ducati still alive and kicking in their old factory in Bologna. Italy.

A Lot of years back a few lads from the UK Laverda club went to the Laverda factory - on route one crashed and had to leave his bike in Northern Italy. On hearing this during the factory Visit -Massimo Laverda (co owner director) instructed a crew to go collect the bike - ordered it to be rebuilt and handed back to the lad - a gesture of generousity and loyalty all at no cost Its a personal thing owning an Italian bike You become part of the larger family. !

Doubt Mr Hondokawasamaha would do the same.

Jake.

Thanks Jake!
I had not fully appreciated the extent to which Moto G have stuck to producing their own parts, as you describe above.
Certainly, a visit to their production facility has to be on the bucket list.
(Damn, there's a title for a new thread!)

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Dave

I truly hope that my grandkids never see me in that light!

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Dave

I love moto guzzi, one of my favourite makes of bikes in reality - you can feel the history in them, they still feel a bit hand made. problem is i have rarely owned or encountered a really reliable one until its gone through a number of changes and reworkings to fix all the little foibles.

I dont have one at the moment but have owned quite a few models over the years.

I know its sad and its no where near as good as many of the other bikes around but i still quite fancy a Moto guzzi tt650 - a simplified and lighter version of a bmw r65g/s weighing in at 165kg (30 kg lighter than a BMW r65gs), shaft drive, 48 hp ( compared to 27hp or 46hp for the bmw) plus the cylinders are more out of the way and with ooodles of low down torque, top speed 170km/h ( 105mph) compared to 90mph for the BMW, cruise all day at 80 mph and frugal on fuel. However they again are a guzzi so for serious off road travel would need a bit of reworking but for a bit of light touring like i now do maybe around Iceland or just pottering here and there just the job for an old gadgie like me. There is a 350 version available at the moment in a dealers but the 650,s are thin on the ground. Known problems are the rear suspension set up, the rear bevel drive and the small tank all can be changed to more usable options but really you should not have to.



Maybe with the success of the v7 range they will re introduce a tt from that range - not just a dressed up one to look like a scrambler version but something a little more focused. Then again we are talking Guzzi here and they rarely seem to follow the market needs as well as they could.

I think the guzzi V7 classic is the best looking bike being built today.. maybe one day i will own one.. but which to sell ??? It certainly ticks all my boxes..

.... and Triumph rebuilt Ted Simon's bike 3 times, IIRC.
Once at factory in UK before departure!
Again in India at Triumph dealer ...
and somewhere else I can't recall ... but pretty sure.

Ted also did a few rebuilds himself along the way.

Also ... the Japanese have done plenty ... they just don't like to blow their own horn regards their altruism.

You won't be disaponted. Piaggio seem to have kept the tooling but cleared out the fettling files and just-in-case **** under the assemblers benches that caused half the weird variation. Coming up on 6000 miles and not so much as the headlight adjusted. 300 mile range and tubeless tyres too.

The scrambler will be a dress up. The dealers are making them already.

Andy

I may be wrong on this but my immediate thoughts would be :

I think in each instance it's good of the companies to do the things they did BUT were there other motives ?.

Just pulling on some dark grim specs whilst holding a big magnifying class, a pipe and wearing a herring bone deerstalker hat. Right comfortably into Detective mode lets have a look.

The Honda / Emilio Scott bike - maybe a world record in it reflecting on Honda - so its a bit like advertising - maybe worth it for Honda ? Still it appears on the surface to certainly be more good will and help than anything negative.

The Harley Tsunami Bike - nice Gesture and story - no doubt and hopefully with a huge dollop of good will - but again a massive press gesture that put Harley on the front pages - I would question the real motive here. It would appear the owner Mr Yokayama has far more pressing things in his life currently - than getting involved in Harley bikes and appears to have tried to side swipe any attention - Harley it appears both in the press and at the museum have hit the jackpot for their part in this. Is it clever marketing and advertising or a helping hand ?
I hope my take on this is wrong - maybe a bit harsh of me to say so. But often money, sales and being seen to be the good fellow seems to be the big hammer with some companies - just like politics really. Underneath they are just lining their own pockets and nests even more.

Ted Simon was helped by Triumph a lot agree - I can't remember but I sem to remember something along the lines of the bosses at triumph decline help and it was the workers that took this first rebuild on board unnofficial like i may be mixing it up with another tale but it seems to ring a bell. Then when the bosses realized there was a some promotion to be had they stepped in to help. Be mindful that this was a triumph and if anyone wanted it to reach the other end of Europe then some special care would have been required so the workers wanted the bike to reflect well on them and their work. Ted was doing something that could reflect on the company big style - again they knew Ted was a journalist and was going to write a book about his travels - was there something in this for triumph ?.

Massimio Laverda a small motorcycle company - a side kick to the combine harvester factory in reality, fixing up a bike for a GB club member an unknown person who was from a different country - It never made the press back here it might of been in the local rag in Italy I do not know, there was no big thing just a helping hand to a fellow rider - or have i got my rosey specs on again.

I am sure lots of companies may well have helped out riders in unfortunate circumstances i think that's great - The Laverda one is one i had heard of years ago whilst riding laverdas long before computers and media like these days. A time when loyalty and customer service really meant a lot.
It would be great if more bike companies held out the hand now and again to loyal customers when things have gone wrong - as often as not its quite the opposite in this modern world of consumerism.

3 wheel - Andy, Real nice to hear your enjoying your V7, they are nice looking - I was just reading about the MK11 shame you can't opt for no ABS or Traction control - its stuff i dont like on a bike, but other than that they are sweet as a nut.

Tchus jake.

Ted Simons Triumph was at the time of the workers collective IIRC. A sort of management buyout come communist uprising against the state of the place and the fact it was heading for oblivion. Going on strike and working for yourselves when your company was going to the wall was a sign of the times along with chocolate brown wall paper, purple flairs, facial hair that made everyone look like serial killers etc.


OT; ABS/ASR does nothing until you get very close to locking a wheel, so no change in how it rides. If it bothers you that much, pull the fuse it reverts to non-ABS. Only hassle is if it won't put the light out on MOT day. You get a bigger battery as part of the deal. Part of type approval on bikes from next year.


Andy

Great comments Jake!

I'm not sure of the protocol or precise history regards Simon's first re-build and support at the old Meridan works. But it got done ... and Triumph got their name out there ... RTW. Sad, too late for them by that point really.

Here's a more recent and interesting Tidbit from Ted's last big round the world ride. Must be 6 or 7 years back by now? Ted rode a fully customized BMW R80 on that ride ... you may remember it, the one that fell on his leg and broke it ... stranding him in Africa for a few months.

Interesting part of this story is that in planning/prepping for the trip Ted FIRST went to Triumph, met with Mr. Bloor or his representatives. Ted wanted to repeat his epic RTW ride on a Triumph ... as you would do!

Triumph flatly refused to provide a bike or to sponsor him. Talk about stupid!
Ted kind of burnt his bridges with Triumph at that point, speaking out publicly, hammering Triumph for their unwillingness to help. Ted had been all set to repeat his ride on a "modern" Bonneville. Never happened.

This is nearly as bad as KTM's faux paux in turning down Ewan & Charlie for their Long Way Round debacle on BMW R1150GS - ADV ... all 318 kgs. worth!

Another Kudos for HD is the complete rebuild they did for long time MC Globetrotters Peter and Kay Forwood. Total ground up re-build done at HD factory ... this done with something like 250,000 miles on their bike.

Andy i tried my best to persuade Debz (iain and Debz) to buy a V7 when she was looking around for a mid size bike for everyday commute to work - she looked at the V7 - Iain tried to convince her but she just went and bought a Trans alp - (saying it was all about the money as if anyone would believe that excuse !!) the trans alp she assures me is a great bike she is happy with - but to my eyes it hasn't got the heart or soul of a Guzzi and certainly not the Italian style and flair.
When you next see her she need chastised and made aware of the error of her ways. (good luck if you try that one mind)

Tchus Jake.