CRF 450 L seems appropriate...

I wait for WR 450 R. Hope it comes out in 2-3 years !

__________________
"where the traveller goes, nobody knows ! "

Thanks for the answers guys.

Yes, I guess it might seem like I am chasing a unicorn here, but I am willing to make some concessions.

Agreed that the dual sport options are not so comfortable, especially for a passenger. But last year I did about 6000k through Indonesia on a KX150 with a passenger and we just took the seat off, gave it to an upholstery guy on the side of the road with some instructions and had him cut new cushion to our specific ergonomic needs and throw some new vinyl on it et voila....not so pretty looking on a dual sport but problem solved. I guess I could just to the same.

And for luggage....It doesnt need to be perfect or pretty. In Indonesia on the KX I just bought some iron rod, sketched out a luggage system and handed it to a welder..just needed something to bungee two packpacks onto either side. Worked fine for me. I also have a Triumph scrambler here in Spain that I made a funny little luggage solution for that involved a strip of canvas that runs under my seat with nylon straps and eyelets...kindof hard to explain, I think I actually posted a thread about it with picture son this hubb somewhere. Anyways, I rode like that with a passenger all the way to Albania and scrambled some pretty dodgy dirt tracks like that. I still use that same system today on the scrambler (which will be sold to buy this new bike )

Anyways, thank you all for the answers. The CB500X could fit the bill, but yes, I would need the Rally Raid kit and an improvised luggage system and seat....I will look a bit more into that one.

And yes, there is the long awaited Tenere, but still no idea when it will be here and when it does arrive if it will make it through the EU's net.

All the other ideas that were shared (Honda 500x, Kawa KLR650, CRF450L, etc.) are not available for purchase here in Spain. BTW...anyone know why that is?

Well, its like you said Mark,
"It's all about adjusting expectations to the limitations of what exists in the real world"

Im happy to adjust expectations with some wonky innovations of my own, I guess Im just A.) frustrated all these dualsport options aren't available in Spain and B.) also wondering...even if they were would they even work to travel long distances at sustained higher speeds of 100kph or above.

It depends how much offroad ability you expect to need. As tremens says, in Europe emissions regulations have killed off former favourites like the DR650 and KLR650. If you can find a good used 660 Tenere that could meet your needs. I'm not a great fan of the 500X as it's basically an adv styled road bike. If you want any real offroadability you have to spend quite a lot on aftermarket mods, and then the suspension is still a compromise. Avoid enduro bikes as said, they will kill your butt, aren't passenger friendly and are generally in a higher state of tune than you'd want for a long distance machine.

Personally, I'm waiting for the 790, which is due in Europe late this year/early next year. The T7 could be viable and that's due around the same time.

Well now, if your aspirations are no more than what you've already done in Indonesia, you don't have a problem. You (and a ton of Asians, Africans and others) already know that if you're either determined or bereft of other options, you'll make it work.

And I'm sure you're aware that lots of people have traveled with those larger (~650) dual sports, and only somewhat fewer with the smaller ones (~250-450), and that they can sustain speeds over 100kph. I've done this with 250 Hondas, and merely changed the oil a lot. I've done it with a 650 Kawasaki, and it lasted essentially forever. But you already know that, so what's the question? In your original post you were insisting on a far higher standard than you're likely to find in a KLR or CRF.

Mark

Actually I didnt know that, so it's good to know . I wasnt sure if a smaller dual sport could sustain speeds like 110 for long periods. One guy I talked to about it said "no", but he was just one guy. I know I would have to do a lot of oil changes.

My standards are not all that high, maybe I gave a false impression. If that KX150 I had in indonesia could have cruised at 110 I would have just rode it all the way back to spain and it would be parked in front of my place

BTW, someone asked for a few pics of that...see below

After we sold that in Indonesia we went to Mongolia and bought a 150cc chinese bike (which we later found out was a knock-off of the real chinese brand name...imagine that, a 150cc copy of a chinese bike!) and rode two up on it for a month loaded with gear and spares off roading through the steppe. Its on trips like these (and the India to Spain on the Enfield) I grew to understand you don't need much.

That being said living in Europe there are times when I want to ride to the mountains a few hundred km away but dont want to have to quit my job and take a half year off to make sure I get there. So I need something that is highway compatible, but rugged enough that I could take it down to Africa someday. The comfort and luggage problems I can solve. (I think).

Thanks for the suggestions @NtoStravel, but I think most of those are just more bike that I am looking for. Im super small guy and not really into power and speed. And thanks @tremens for the input on the CB500. Duly Noted. And Ill check out that post you referred to @Cholo

Now Im thinking I might just look into buying some 450 off-road bike and try and make it street legal...Ill have to look into how big a headache that would be.

Attached Thumbnails

 

 

 

I assume a "450 Off Road bike" will not be street legal? Maybe you can convert it to street legal in Spain? ... but you will have other, more serious problems using such a bike.

Most non street legal Off road bikes are basically ... Race Bikes. Motocross bikes mostly or hard Enduro bikes. Trust me, they don't make good travel bikes without doing A LOT of work ($$$$)

1. The long travel suspension will not work well two up and no passenger foot rests and missing LOTS of other things too.

2. Add luggage (but where? and How?) Race bikes have NO subframe.
With luggage mounted, suspension gets worse as you will have too much sag in the rear. Not good, will ruin steering geometry and handling goes to Hell.

3. Lighting. Race and Hard Enduro bikes have very little if any lighting and have very low Stator output. Not good for travel. You will not have good lighting or power to run heated gear.

What is your budget? $$$$
Probably should have started with this question first!

Newer bikes cost a lot of money. But if you buy a nice, low Km used dual sport bike, it could be a perfect project that you can actually make into a good travel bike.

A standard 350 to 500cc street bike could work for you too, but a Dual Sport bike will perform better off road, is stronger and if set up right, can be a comfortable and reliable travel bike.

You need to find a bike to adapt to soft luggage, has some sort of rear sub frame and is strong enough to carry passenger and your luggage.

Even though I spent months is Spain on two long bike trips, I only visited a few bike shops. I don't know what is for sale there now and don't know what older bikes might be available.

If your budget is low, I would try to find a nice old XT600 Yamaha. Will do everything you need if set up right, is super simple, air cooled and reliable. You can find them in the UK for sale, don't know about Spain.

There are a few others that could work. Look around.

Well, that solves that....thanks mollydog...shows how much I know. I didnt even think about that fact that a motocross bike would not have a a frame that I could build a luggage system around. As for the "lightning", I have no idea what that all means but it sounds like another good reason to avoid the idea of making a motorcross bike street legal.

And thanks Jenny for weighing in on the 500x rally kit.

So Im thinking maybe, as suggested, it is a good idea to look into finding an older street legal dual sport in Spain. I checked around and there are indeed some decent looking options of mid-weight dual sport bikes here in Spain. It seems you can find them here up until about 2008 models, that must be when some EU laws squashed them.

For example, an XT600:
https://goo.gl/SA9Ra6

Here is an XT660:
https://goo.gl/Hdj4jq

And a Suzuki DR650:
https://goo.gl/vifgGr
A DRZ400:
https://goo.gl/Ly1rv1

A KTM 450 EXE
https://goo.gl/QN6utk

I already rode that 40 year old enfield through 20 countries which was great, and I still have it for putzing around, but for this bike I want something more reliable I had in my mind to get something no older than a few years. But I suppose even if a bike is 12 years old or so...if I can find one with under 15 or 10 thousand kilometers on the ticker, it should serve me well eh? And hopefully not too hard to find parts for them?

So what do you guys think out of the models I linked to above? Im not even sure all of them have a subframe I could use to make a luggage system. Basically if there is an aftermarket rear luggage rack that can fit on it that is all I need to work off of.

I guess the downside of these dualsports is limited range (small tanks), limited oil capacity (frequent changes)...and as people have pointed out, seat comfort, which I think I can rectify to some extent.

As for budget, I have a 2015 Triumph Scrambler I will sell, I imagine I will get about 7500€ for it. So more than enough for these options.

Hi momo - I think the reason people have suggested something in the 650cc class is because you say you'd like to travel two-up, and any of the 450cc 'class' dual-sport bikes tend to be designed for solo riders, or very occasional pillion use (ie. a short lift into town or back from a pub/restaurant), not day-in and day-out touring - as there isn't the space and/or associated comfort typically, unless you go for a physically larger bike.

If you don't want to go for something like the twin-cylinder CB500X (which is only 471cc btw. and punches well above it's weight in that regard), and stick with a single-cylinder dual-sport design - then of the bikes you list above, I think the DRZ400 is going to be your best option. Plenty of people have travelled all over the world on those - they are reliable, and have far more 'street' style maintenance schedules (4000 mile oil changes as I recall), plus there is a huge aftermarket for them if you want/need a larger tank, more comfortable seat, luggage racks and engine guards etc.

I have a number of friends who use these as 'travel enduros' around Europe, and they swear by them - they are also fully street legal (if you by the S or SM version), and even the E model can be registered for the road in most European countries.

I know [some] people bemoan the lack of a 6th gear for higher speed cruising at lower revs, but to be honest the stock gearing is good for 70+mph if needs be, and most backroad and off-road touring is done at a far lower average speed.

If it were me, I'd buy a clean DRZ400SM model (slightly lower suspension, but with the USD fork from the RMZ range, and 17" wheels) and re-lace the front hub with a 19" rim. That way you'd get a 10" travel bike with 17" rear and 19" front wheels that can take a whole range of dual-sport tyres, with improved road-manners over a dedicated 18/21" wheel/tyre combo. Both the S and SM models also come with pillion foot-pegs of course.

I'd fit a larger aftermarket tank (IMS or similar), and probably look at a more comfortable seat (or at least a replacement foam and cover); and if carrying a passenger then a rack for luggage - otherwise, just a Giant Loop bag over the rear of the seat.

And 'crack on' as they say!

Hope that gives you something to go on...

Jenny x

ps. Looking at your potential budget, before you make your mind up on a single though, do check out my recent ride-report on the Rally-Raid CB500X here - it really is an excellent all-terrain travel machine.

Not sure either of above bikes could realistically handle TWO UP riding with LUGGAGE. Maybe the Tenere if fitted with a WIDER custom seat? Not sure you could do it on the so skinny new Honda ... with just 25 HP.

tenere has the most comfortable seat of all I've ridden, also for pillion.
not to mention it has very good suspension soaking up all bumps on the road nicely. I could live in xt660z seat...all day


p.s.
regarding CB500X - IMO if you add that adv kit it's no longer that much of a deal and still it's limited off-road, low ground clearance, weight etc.

I agree - XT660Z is a very comfortable long-distance travel bike. I know people who have travelled around the world two up on one too.

I do not agree. The Rally-Raid kit for the CB500X was designed to match or exceed the performance of three key bikes: the F700GS, the XT660Z and the KLR650... As you are probably aware, I've owned both the XT660Z and helped develop the CB500X kit - and it is every bit as good as the XT off-road, and even nicer on the highway.



I'd say either are an excellent choice for the OP if they genuinely want to ride long distance, and also carry a passenger.

Jenny x

Did you miss the posts about the Honda CB500X? It's only 50cc away ... also did you see the DRZ400S posts?

There aren't a lot of current 450 dual sport bikes other than the new $10,000 USD Husky and KTM's. Both would be terrible travel bikes. Been there, done that.

I have reservations about taking the CB500X offroad in its stock form at least.
I rented one for a week in Greece and tried some trails. The CB500X is just not an offroad bike: the balance is wrong, the bike just doesn't want to go where you want her to, brakes are too agressive and the rear alloy wheel on my bike was already dented. After 10 kms of trails I was exhausted like if I had carried the bike all the way.

I'm not making here any assumption on the adventure kits, the one I had was full stock. Just saying the CB500X is not much more of an offroad bike than my good old 4-cylinder and 200+kg GSX750.

Like the OP I was also on the look for a dual-sport in Europe. Ended changing my plans and got a DR650 in Canada that I'll ride South this year.
Before doing that I thought one bike which is worth considering for the use that the OP described is the SWM superdual 650.

Depends on the weighs of the rider and passenger

Sure it will not be a comfortable ride !

__________________
"where the traveller goes, nobody knows ! "