I assume a "450 Off Road bike" will not be street legal? Maybe you can convert it to street legal in Spain? ... but you will have other, more serious problems using such a bike.

Most non street legal Off road bikes are basically ... Race Bikes. Motocross bikes mostly or hard Enduro bikes. Trust me, they don't make good travel bikes without doing A LOT of work ($$$$)

1. The long travel suspension will not work well two up and no passenger foot rests and missing LOTS of other things too.

2. Add luggage (but where? and How?) Race bikes have NO subframe.
With luggage mounted, suspension gets worse as you will have too much sag in the rear. Not good, will ruin steering geometry and handling goes to Hell.

3. Lighting. Race and Hard Enduro bikes have very little if any lighting and have very low Stator output. Not good for travel. You will not have good lighting or power to run heated gear.

What is your budget? $$$$
Probably should have started with this question first!

Newer bikes cost a lot of money. But if you buy a nice, low Km used dual sport bike, it could be a perfect project that you can actually make into a good travel bike.

A standard 350 to 500cc street bike could work for you too, but a Dual Sport bike will perform better off road, is stronger and if set up right, can be a comfortable and reliable travel bike.

You need to find a bike to adapt to soft luggage, has some sort of rear sub frame and is strong enough to carry passenger and your luggage.

Even though I spent months is Spain on two long bike trips, I only visited a few bike shops. I don't know what is for sale there now and don't know what older bikes might be available.

If your budget is low, I would try to find a nice old XT600 Yamaha. Will do everything you need if set up right, is super simple, air cooled and reliable. You can find them in the UK for sale, don't know about Spain.

There are a few others that could work. Look around.

Well, that solves that....thanks mollydog...shows how much I know. I didnt even think about that fact that a motocross bike would not have a a frame that I could build a luggage system around. As for the "lightning", I have no idea what that all means but it sounds like another good reason to avoid the idea of making a motorcross bike street legal.

And thanks Jenny for weighing in on the 500x rally kit.

So Im thinking maybe, as suggested, it is a good idea to look into finding an older street legal dual sport in Spain. I checked around and there are indeed some decent looking options of mid-weight dual sport bikes here in Spain. It seems you can find them here up until about 2008 models, that must be when some EU laws squashed them.

For example, an XT600:
https://goo.gl/SA9Ra6

Here is an XT660:
https://goo.gl/Hdj4jq

And a Suzuki DR650:
https://goo.gl/vifgGr
A DRZ400:
https://goo.gl/Ly1rv1

A KTM 450 EXE
https://goo.gl/QN6utk

I already rode that 40 year old enfield through 20 countries which was great, and I still have it for putzing around, but for this bike I want something more reliable I had in my mind to get something no older than a few years. But I suppose even if a bike is 12 years old or so...if I can find one with under 15 or 10 thousand kilometers on the ticker, it should serve me well eh? And hopefully not too hard to find parts for them?

So what do you guys think out of the models I linked to above? Im not even sure all of them have a subframe I could use to make a luggage system. Basically if there is an aftermarket rear luggage rack that can fit on it that is all I need to work off of.

I guess the downside of these dualsports is limited range (small tanks), limited oil capacity (frequent changes)...and as people have pointed out, seat comfort, which I think I can rectify to some extent.

As for budget, I have a 2015 Triumph Scrambler I will sell, I imagine I will get about 7500€ for it. So more than enough for these options.

Hi momo - I think the reason people have suggested something in the 650cc class is because you say you'd like to travel two-up, and any of the 450cc 'class' dual-sport bikes tend to be designed for solo riders, or very occasional pillion use (ie. a short lift into town or back from a pub/restaurant), not day-in and day-out touring - as there isn't the space and/or associated comfort typically, unless you go for a physically larger bike.

If you don't want to go for something like the twin-cylinder CB500X (which is only 471cc btw. and punches well above it's weight in that regard), and stick with a single-cylinder dual-sport design - then of the bikes you list above, I think the DRZ400 is going to be your best option. Plenty of people have travelled all over the world on those - they are reliable, and have far more 'street' style maintenance schedules (4000 mile oil changes as I recall), plus there is a huge aftermarket for them if you want/need a larger tank, more comfortable seat, luggage racks and engine guards etc.

I have a number of friends who use these as 'travel enduros' around Europe, and they swear by them - they are also fully street legal (if you by the S or SM version), and even the E model can be registered for the road in most European countries.

I know [some] people bemoan the lack of a 6th gear for higher speed cruising at lower revs, but to be honest the stock gearing is good for 70+mph if needs be, and most backroad and off-road touring is done at a far lower average speed.

If it were me, I'd buy a clean DRZ400SM model (slightly lower suspension, but with the USD fork from the RMZ range, and 17" wheels) and re-lace the front hub with a 19" rim. That way you'd get a 10" travel bike with 17" rear and 19" front wheels that can take a whole range of dual-sport tyres, with improved road-manners over a dedicated 18/21" wheel/tyre combo. Both the S and SM models also come with pillion foot-pegs of course.

I'd fit a larger aftermarket tank (IMS or similar), and probably look at a more comfortable seat (or at least a replacement foam and cover); and if carrying a passenger then a rack for luggage - otherwise, just a Giant Loop bag over the rear of the seat.

And 'crack on' as they say!

Hope that gives you something to go on...

Jenny x

ps. Looking at your potential budget, before you make your mind up on a single though, do check out my recent ride-report on the Rally-Raid CB500X here - it really is an excellent all-terrain travel machine.

Wow, this is great info, thanks so much for this this Jenny. So I went back and carefully read the adventure-motorcycling.com review on the CB500X and your ride report, which were both very encouraging. I also checked out the RRO website and looked at the options. I definitely see the benefit of the twin. As you pointed out will be more comfortable with a pillion, smoother on the highway, and although im not hungry for it... its always nice to have a bit more power when needed. Im finding some good looking used ones here under 10000km in the 4400€ price range. As for add ons, Im not the type to tear up too much track and push a machine just for sport and fun so I imagine I would be fine with the RR suspension kit 1 (im also only 1.73m so wouldn't be too keen on the extra 2 inches of added height). Im not even sure I could justify the tubeless tire kit. But would be curious to hear which of the RRP upgrades you would consider a "necessity" considering my needs.

Anyways, yes, I think I will keep this as an option.

But I was also sold a bit on what you had to say about the DRZ400. I found this thread which seems to add credence to the fact that you can ride one of those fairly comfortably at 70mph speeds. DRZ400 on the highway | Adventure Rider

And I can pick one up here in good condition with abou 7k km on it for just under 3900€. With all the money leftover I could modify the hell out of it and make it a pretty badass little machine. New gearing for starters, and your idea for the tires makes great sense.

Its a whole hell of a lot lighter than the CB. (146 vs 196).

Anyways...I think I've narrowed it down some at least. Thanks again everyone for the input. Hopefully this thread will help someone else out in the future.

No problem - always happy to help!

I've always thought the DRZ (SM, with a 19" front wheel) would be an excellent travel enduro - the only thing that has stopped me buying one in the past is that I've always felt the styling was a bit gawky, coupled with my general love for Honda's too of course ;o)

I have some good friends who are currently on their way to Eastern Europe from the UK on theirs - they travel every summer all over Europe (they have the E models, street-registered in the UK) and love them. On the right tyres and with a slightly smaller rear sprocket (to up the gearing) they are plenty comfortable and fast enough on road, and for general unpaved trail riding.

With regard to the CB500X - you certainly don't need to go the whole hog and fit the longer travel LEVEL 2 suspension, although for more serious off-road use the extra travel and ground clearance give you a lot more margin of course, plus the 19" front wheel offers a wider range of tyres, and generally makes the bike feel very stable and secure on off-road surfaces.

That said, the LEVEL 1 set-up (that is upgraded front and rear suspension in standard-travel length) offers a significant improvement over the stock components while retaining the original seat-height. Lisa (in the photo below) basically just has the LEVEL 1 suspension, Rally-Raid engine guard and Barkbusters fitted, plus some decent all-terrain tyres of course (Continental TKC80s in this instance - which have a dedicated 17" front size available), fitted to her stock cast wheels and therefore can be run tubeless of course.



We have ridden together all over the western USA, and it is surprising capable as long as you consider the lower ground clearance and pick your line through rougher terrain more carefully.

So that is certainly something to consider, especially if you do envisage riding some long highway miles to get to the trail regions you want to explore...

Jx

Don't know the bike market in Spain or UK for the DRZ SM, but here in California SM's sell for LOT more money than do the DRZ400-S dual sport of same year/condition. Around $1000 more, depending.

So, if you do get the DRZ ... I'd go for the S model as you don't have to go through expense and complexity to fit a 19" front wheel. Watch out for screwing up geometry and handling going from 17" front to 19". I know it's been done ... I'm not a fan of going this route.

But overall, reading everything from Momo ... you gotta go with the Honda CB500X, Rally Raid kit or not ... it's still the BEST bike for what you're talking about doing.

The DRZ is a great bike if you really want to stick to OFF ROAD. If you intend to ride mostly ROADS (either dirt, gravel or pavement) I would most definitely go with the CB500X. Faster, smoother ... and nicer on highway. I've spent significant time on highway on the DRZ400S. NO BARGAIN! I'm sure the twin is better everywhere.

If you can afford it ... do ALL or SOME of the Rally Raid kit mods. Definitely do the conversion to TUBELESS. A must do, IMHO. Suspension too if you can afford it. Bash plate and Bark Busters too!

The Honda is going to be the better "All Rounder" vs. the Suzuki, IMHO. It will also last longer once 75K km down the road. Easy to maintain, good value for money.