It is debatable that the Japanese had superior metallurgical technology to the British ,certainly their bikes of the sixties and seventies were made of inferior alloys that turned to powder once the "varnish" had peeled off and the engine cases of these bikes were glued together to make them oiltight .
The bikes were able to fulfill a market need based on performance and price and hence their success .
If the British "captains of industry " had had the vision and drive of Soichiro Honda then Brit bikes would be still world leaders .
Technology was not lacking but business acumen certainly was .

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Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

Well for what its worth, during the sixties my BSA was an oil spewing, vibrating piece of junk which would start maybe half the time, sported an Frankenstein electrical system and actually used to shed parts as it proceeded down the highway. My Honda and Yamaha were wonders of smooth reliability and never, ever let me down. Somewhere in that scenario superior technology must have played a role.

The BSA had very cool optics, however.

Normw

For what it's worth .Comparing bikes of the same era and similar engine size and type .

My BSA started every time first kick ,did not leak oil , vibrated like a bugger , looked great [it was an Eddy Dow special but the later Lightnings were good lookers too ] ,went well for a 650 twin and sounded lovely [ Dunstall Decibel silencers ], handled good .Brakes poor .It never let me down .

My Yamaha starts every time first kick or lectric , leaks oil [clutch and countershaft seals -soon to be fixed ] ,vibrates above 85 mph ,looks horrible, slow for a 650 twin but goes better now the engine has been modified ,sounds nice [Commando exhausts] ,handles average .Brakes good .Blew the alternator twice last year and once this year .This bike was very well regarded in it's day and had a long production run .

My Norton starts first kick , leaks oil [ primary case and gearchange o rings - soon to be fixed ] , vibration is not felt [ isolastic engine mounts ] , looks great , goes really well for a supposedly 67 hp bike , sounds fantastic [Dunstalls ] ,handles really well .Brakes only average .Has never let me down other than an exhaust nut coming loose although I suspect the zener diode will need replacing with a solid state reg/rect system .

I haven't included any singles, triples or 4 cylinder bikes as I believe it's important to compare " like with like" and only comment in depth on bikes that I am completely familiar with .Also the bikes are in similar mechanical condition .
Technology : I've had all of these bikes apart and am impressed with the roller bearings in the Yam engine ,but the quality of it's castings is poor and the intake and exhaust ports are badly shaped . The Norton has superb gas flowing qualities and a good combustion chamber shape but alas no OHC and roller big end .

The Japanese bike has a robust engine that can be tweaked to get more power - it needs it . The BSA produces the same power as the Yam but is faster [ raced with my mate who had one ] .The BSA could be tweaked to get more power as well but not as far as the Yam . The Norton is probably as highly tuned as you would want to go .
Frame technology , Norton far superior , BSA second , Yamaha a very distant third .

Riding pleasure : Norton first by a long way ,Yam and BSA about the same .

All of the above bikes could be trounced by a four cylinder bike ten years younger but that would hardly be a fair comparison .
But it would be interesting to compare them to a Kawasaki W650 and a New Bonneville .

__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

The Brits probably "had" the technology but they certainly didn't use it much on their bikes or cars. (F-1 notwithstanding) Not only were the Alu castings inferior to Japanese ones (that cost half what the Brit bikes did)...they were porous, they warped just looking at them and would crack. Warped castings is a sure sign of a poor understanding of Metalurgical science. You may believe the Brits were the equal of the US in this area...but history sort of proves otherwise.

Remember, the SR71 Blackbird was designed and tested in the mid 1950's, it was operational very soon after. This an expanding Titanium skinned mach 3 behemoth that was easily 30 years ahead of anything the Brits (or anyone) had...or even dreamed of. This monster spy plane was kept secret until the early to mid 70's.

Quality control beggining in the 70's was horrendous. (See Mick Duckworth and his Triumph books) The bearings didn't last long, Valves, seats, cams were a joke and heads warped on a very regular basis. Frames/suspension handled really well but cracked..... and how 'bout those electrics, eh? Lucas, Prince of Darkness, was a friend of mine.

Before you start trying to defend British "industry" (what? Coal?) of this period I might remind you...they didn't have any. Should we disect the fabulous Brit car industry? Rover, Jag, Morris? MG, Hillman, Triumph? and on an on. All well known for unmatched reliability, right? The 70's spelled the end for many of these companies....along with the few remaining bike companies. Oh, I know, lets blame the unions!

Sure, Japanese Alu got powdery and they did use that varnish that peeled off.
But what was inside was pretty frikin solid....and ran and ran and ran. And that's the bottom line. The bikes were tough....and any engineer could see the quality and brilliance in the designs....all done at a bargain price.
Nothing has really changed in that regard!

The Good (early Jap bikes 1960 to 1970)
Motors (with some exceptions...stellar for the cost)
Gear box (rare failures)
Electrics (20 years ahead of the Germans, Brits and Americans)
Bearings (world class)
Wheels (heavy but strong and stayed true)

The Bad:
Brakes (good brakes came in '72 or so)
frames (strong but crude, evil handling in first decade)
Finish on Alu (only in some cases) suffered corrosion. Both my Honda 50 and SuperHawk 305 has this....both lasted years and never saw the inside of a shop or a wrench.

Suspension could go either way back then.

Also, lets look at some racing history...by the early 60's the Japanese began to dominate in Moto GP, winning world Championships in almost ALL the classes (50, 125, 250, 500). They won at Isle of Man (Remember Canadian
Mike (Michele) Duff riding forYamaha with Phil Read? Racing improves the breed...and the Japanese have always taken it dead serious. (too serious)


"Filling a need" is maybe how it started but folks quickly learned just how solid, reliable and maintenance free Japanese bikes were. I used to ride my Honda 50 in the ocean....on a regular basis. By the time the "You met the nicest people on a Honda" ad campaign came out in about 1963 or '64, they were well on their way....a whole new generation had been tapped. Not much brand loyalty in the US....the young kids could care less about Triumph and anything else, they bought Hondas, Yamahas, Kawasaki's and Suzuki's.

By the end only Triumph/BSA were left and the exec board had all made their money and just could care less. They saw the writing on the walls...remember all their competition was gone...so why stay in the game? They poo poo'd the Japanese products till the end....having their asses handed to them in several
major racing venues....and while Triumph were selling a 100,000, Honda were selling millions. The Triumph guys were done, didn't want to stay in the game.

Funny, if they had asked...Honda would have propped up the company and helped out Triumph until they could re-tool. Never happened.

Patrick

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

I always thought that the British metallurgical quality that was in early british bikes was due to gun barrel developments being applied to the barrels on cyclinders - hence B.S.A's movement into making small-bore engines post-war.

That's right Henry. BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) started up around WW1 or thereabouts. I'd have to look up the exact year when they started making bikes, but I do know they go back to the 1920's at least.

Edward Turner made huge strides in engine R&D while at Triumph in the 1930s. Later, many motorcycle companies in the UK borrowed from aircraft industry alloy research in metalurgy during WW2.

By the end of WW2 the Germans had really figured a few things out...as we all know. Atom bomb tech came from Germany....the Ruskies got half their engineers and US got the other half. Lots and lots new, unheard of technologies were "appropriated" from the Germans... and the Germans have never been paid for any of it to this day. (to the winner, the spoils of war)

Everything from breakthrough chemicals and medicines (Dow and ICI benefited greatly), to film and magnetic tape tech (Agfa) where 3M and Kodak benefited, to supercharging and turbo tech which US/UK aircraft companies benefited from, to the development of Jets, which mostly the US military kept to themselves. Many of these areas had to depend on advanced Alloys, which the Germans were into in the 30's. By the 50's the US military had put some of this to use. (see reference to SR71 Blackbird above)

In most of these areas the Germans where probably 10 to 15 years ahead of the US and UK and Japan.

After WW2 much of what the US occupation of Japan was about was re-building the country. This is where the tech sharing came in.

Patrick

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

BSA started in the 1860s by independant gunmakers wanting to standardise production .Produced their first motorbike in 1903 and their first car in about 1907 .They owned Daimler cars and also produced bicycles .They had over 60 factories during ww2 making guns ,motorcycles and other things .
They are still around and make a Yamaha engined bike , the name BSA is still seen on air rifles and gun scopes although I think it is a seperate company .

__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."