Talking to yourself is the first sign of madness ::

So you post another link to another online source.

The pdf in question blames the recent flooding in the UK entirely of the WFD stopping people dredging rivers................what about the exceptional levels of rainfall over the December period and the continued development in flood plains?

A natural river system does not require dredging to function, this is only needed when man kinds activity affects the natural process whether that be through intensive agricultural practices, constructing in the flood plains removing the natural ability to flood or our habit of constraining natural watercourses in artificial channels.

And just so we are clear the Water Environment (Water Framework Directive) (England & Wales) Regulations 2003 can be found here

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...0033242_en.pdf

Dredging does not appear in this legislation once

Broadly so, although I don't think the commentator in the link was completely blaming lack of dredging; the people of the Somerset levels were of that view a year ago however when there was no doubt that dredging of their local rivers had ceased for some years in order to protect or otherwise preserve or enhance the local wetlands for the use of wildlife (or words to that effect at that time).
The folk of Glenridding are also of a similar view concerning the shambles that their village became in December 15 - 3 times in one week I think it was.

Flood RE is the answer to the issue; coming into force in April of this year, it gets the current govn out of a hole and passes the problem over to all those who carry house insurance in the UK.
It does this via the simple expedient of imposing a tax on all household insurance so that flood insurance is provided by "Flood RE", still at a cost, to those who live on the flood plains. In effect, it provides insurance cover against the occurance of a racing certainty (3 times in one week?).
But, some flood insurance policies now carry an excess of £10K or 25% of the total bill per event; Flood RE may do similar (3 times per week?).
As I understand it this day, it does not apply to properties built after 2009 - connect with the OTOH below.

Many of our towns and cities were first located upon flood plains, and the confluences of rivers, many centuries ago for goodish reasons at that time, and haphazard development of them continued over many more centuries.
Arguably, they are no longer fit for purpose and should be relocated within this "crowded" island.
OTOH, those who choose to live next to a known flood hazard need to man up to their own responsibility for taking that personal decision.

anyone?

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Dave

The Somerset Levels are a different issue to this year flooding, they are a natural wetland/marsh system artificially drained to allow grazing and in more recent times arable crop production. The first attempts to drain the area was possibly in Roman times

Here a cessation of dredging did have an impact with flooding, but naturally it is an area of wetlands/marshes/peat bogs were the changed use by mankind has altered the natural situation.

Somerset Levels:
The name says it really.


Agreed, the post-flooding event solution came, in part anyway, by dredging the rivers of that flooded area.

The locals had dredged the rivers for years under the auspicies of the local drainage boards, all disbanded in favour of a national body that knows best.

And, the flood effects were dealt with by means of pumping.
Once push came to the big shove, everyone had had their say and the media had waded up and down the drowned roads a few times, the Dutch hydraulic engineers were called in to assist in solving UK issues on the levels with the pumps.


Just as we now need French engineers to design our next nuclear power station, basically because it is so long since we last did anything of that nature that all the British expertise in nuclear technology has retired in the meantime.
C'est la vie.
Do what you are good at doing and buy in expertise for what you are not.


But, there again, the people of York have not heard the last of the failure of pumps on the rivers in that area last month.

Just can't get the staff nowadays!

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Dave

Settled Scientists in denial.


List of excuses for ‘The Pause’ in global warming | Watts Up With That?


Having settled on the hypothesis of settled science and now that the evidence is not stacking up to match the earlier prognoses we can find the book of excuses for why the ongoing measurements don't match the predictions; as per the link above.



This one is a classic from academia and ties in with my experiences of working alongside some of those who are engaged in "research":-
50) The observational data we have is inadequate, but we ignore uncertainty to publish anyway: [Carl Wunsch in an NYT Article]

“The central problem of climate science is to ask what you do and say when your data are, by almost any standard, inadequate? If I spend three years analyzing my data, and the only defensible inference is that “the data are inadequate to answer the question,” how do you publish? How do you get your grant renewed? A common answer is to distort the calculation of the uncertainty, or ignore it all together, and proclaim an exciting story that the New York Times will pick up…How many such stories have been withdrawn years later when enough adequate data became available?"

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Dave

If you like, you are welcome to come play in the piles of Arsenic in my home area. Despite our parents warnings the arsenic sand was soft and fun to play in.
I later worked in it doing both reclamation and just doing dirt work as the concentrations are very high in certain areas not being reclaimed.
This was in large a major reason why I got out of the dirt work in this area, not worth it. But hey, it is natural right?


Tree rings show global temperatures where a bit higher during roman times, scholars suggest this was do to a lack in volcanic activity,,, now we should be cooling more as we are slowly moving away from the sun.

On with our tale...

anyone remember those kids at school who seemed to think the only way to win a debate was to shout louder than everyone else? seems we've got some in the pub atm

Now there's something worth discussing- only a few weeks before the new season premier

Historically, we have had more than our share of heavy metal contamination in the UK, including that of lead, as I indicated earlier.
Now, all lead pipes have been removed from the water supply systems in the UK which is why the current events in Flint, Michigan caught my attention.
It is bemusing, to say the least, that in your country you still use pipes constructed of lead for the supply of water for human consumption.


My background is in the application of “settled science” knowledge, fully recognising that it is not the holy grail of, in this case, physics but it serves a function on a day to day basis.
I refer to Newtonian theory and its application to everyday engineering.


In my case, for a number of years, this engineering application was in the fields of water supply and the disposal of dirty water (what you guys sometimes refer to as grey water).
Consequently, BOD and COD calculations and similar maths based solutions to everyday problems were the bread and butter of my life, at that time – I have done other things also.


Like you I have learned a fair bit over many years about pollution, in my case from playing, as a kid, on bomb sites left from WW2 to being involved in designing and implementing engineered solutions.
Here in the UK, we have dealt with most of the issues of pollution; I am not saying that things are 100% hunky dory but we have made great strides in such things and I had a small part to play in that, over the past 40+ years.


It is because of this background that I can hold my current sceptical outlook toward some issues despite those who perpetrate the idea that their brand of “settled science” cannot be challenged – we have gone over that earlier in this thread and those who hold such views and belief systems will probably continue to do so; keep the faith no matter what, as the Jesuits were inclined toward (just as one example of the dogma approach).


I, on the other hand, continue to make a judgement on the basis of what occurs rather than what is said - “what is said” feeds into that of course and that is where the internet is a powerful tool for such personal research.


This continues to be a great thread exhibiting a wide range of information, views, facts, anecdotes and the like.

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Dave

Canute – commended reading


Reading some of the other documents left lying in the late night detritus of the HUBB pub bar, among all the more usual Sunday MSM, I happened upon this more interesting discussion; the author rang a bell immediately with his description of the tale of King Canute.
Exactly the same storyline was fed to me as a child, especially the aspect that says he was the worst King ever and the evidence proffered of his antics on the beach.
As the article says, the Danish King Canute, who managed to rule most of England, was denigrated by his successors once he was safely dead and out of the way – that does sound much like modern methods of character assassination.


Quite a few centuries later a certain Will Shakespeare carried out a similar role on behalf of the Tudor dynasty in order to blacken the name of the Plantagenets, especially the last one who was also King of England for a while, Richard 3 (killed on the battlefield by those loyal to a certain Henry Tudor).


Modern Day Versions of King Canute Find It Difficult To Replace God.


Commended reading because there is a moral to the story, apart from the treachery of ancient Kingdoms.

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Dave

I am not sure what logic you think I am applying to CO2.

Lead.
Yes, not the first time I have mentioned this because it was a major issue here in the UK (and elsewhere of course) quite a few years ago; children taking in lead from a polluted atmosphere was clearly attributable to lead additives in fuel.
As a child I owned many toy soldiers made of 100% lead (and some kids made their own by use of moulds and melting down the solid to a liquid) and I would suspect that I put them in my mouth now and again. Again, in school we all had a stash of mercury, obtained from the chemistry lessons – a matchbox full of the stuff would be in my pocket; it could be traded for other attractive items, such as Nazi regalia from the recently finished WW2 including bayonets, brass shell cases, gunpowder etc
Damn, what a dangerous world it was when the kids of my youth were conceived.


I also mentioned it because I have seen in the news here about the current issue there is ongoing in Flint, Michigan.

CO2 Science website and plant/sea life.
I find this aspect pretty interesting by which I mean that it catches my attention more readily than the mass hysteria of the climate alarmists and their whole show business.


The single page linked below, written in 1998, deals with the effects of CO2 enhancement on plant development and gives a good summary of other aspects, including the matter of water in the atmosphere that has now just started to be mentioned in this discourse.
They, the CO2 science research group, do appear to have a well developed and extensive research programme into plant and sea life research..
CO2 Science


Ah, now there's the rub.
That is a hoax.
You have proven that someone is reading this!
More detail about the hoax is here;
Water Vapor The Next Demon Gas | The Resilient Earth

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Dave