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Photo by Marc Gibaud, Clouds on Tres Cerros and Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia

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Photo by Marc Gibaud,
Clouds on Tres Cerros and
Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia



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  #1  
Old 6 Jan 2016
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Originally Posted by backofbeyond View Post
I worked in a research lab at that time and we saw ourselves as competent professional adults capable of working out for ourselves what our efforts were worth. The union reps that periodically came along to promote their "unity is strength" message and convince us to join were generally given a cool reception. The problem for the medical profession is that mostly they've only had one source of employment in the UK since the 1940's - the NHS. Little by little over the decades whatever independence they've had has been whittled away and now it's only through the court of public opinion that they have any bargaining ability. And that is a very two edged sword. It's been interesting to watch how the "debate" has played out in the media so far.
Checkmate: everything that you write resonates.

In particular, what you describe above is very much the same experience in academic work (and the anthropologist has a view about the whittling); it has been for a long time with the difference that academics have a poor public image and naff all public sympathy.

The doctors do have a very clear option to work overseas. Of course many do so, probably far more than there are Brit academics who go away to work, although that option has also figured in the careers of some.
Govns are fond of embracing globilisation, but only when it suits them.

I did use the verb "perform", not knowing how close to the coal face they are; indeed it will be of interest to see how such a cohesive, vocal, well organised and supported group fares.

The "Pimlico Plumber" was interviewed recently - the boss of that company that is.
For anyone with a qualification in the trade he offers about 40K per annum; his top earners are on about 85K per annum and a lot of them still come in from Poland. Basically he was one more UK employer with an issue about the outputs of the British system of education.
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Old 7 Jan 2016
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Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
it has been for a long time with the difference that academics have a poor public image and naff all public sympathy.

The doctors do have a very clear option to work overseas. Of course many do so, probably far more than there are Brit academics who go away to work, although that option has also figured in the careers of some.
Govns are fond of embracing globilisation, but only when it suits them.

I did use the verb "perform", not knowing how close to the coal face they are; indeed it will be of interest to see how such a cohesive, vocal, well organised and supported group fares.
At the risk of over egging this particular conversational pudding I'd agree that medics can always take their skill set elsewhere - people, by and large, are the same biological entities wherever they're found, but in practice that's not going to happen. Out of the 13 doctors at my wife's practice 11 of them have strong family commitments and links to the area - such as children at local schools etc, so they're not going anywhere. And that's not even mentioning the relationships and responsibilities that build up with their patients. Not quite the same in hospital medicine but I'm sure the government knows the "churn" statistics for junior doctors.

Your point about academic freedom to move is interesting as our family group has 2.5 () academics. One (working in artificial intelligence) is now based abroad and the 0.5 (my son) went abroad to one country for his MsC and to another for his PhD (partly) because of economics. Interestingly (for me anyway) about a third of his peer group from school (the local comprehensive) have gone on to do doctorates, a percentage totally unimaginable to my generation. I very much doubt whether he'll be back in the UK any time soon (other than for holidays) but much of the ease with which they've been able to move has largely been due to the existence of the EU. Now there's a debate for the future.
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Old 7 Jan 2016
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I did have in mind the movement of academic staff to overseas posts, such as the anthropologist (I know I keep quoting this guy, but he is highly typical).
He has sinecures in the USA, France and the UK.

But, yes, the introduction of "going rate" higher education fees has led to students voting with their feet.
Similarly, individuals I know who work overseas go to, say, Thailand for medical treatment rather than return to the UK.
Conversely, there are plenty of UK nationals living within other countries of the EU who do come back here for, specifically, surgery.
"ERAMUS" was a scheme of exchange students with which I had some dealings; nowadays later generations can make those same moves through their own volition.

As I touched on earlier: when everyone has a first degree that particular form of qualification has less perceived value, irrespective of the true value.
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