Understand your POV here but I see significant differences between disrespecting individuals vs. circumventing arcane, randomly enforced regs forced upon the public by greedy corporations or corrupt govt. agencies or Tin Pot officials.

Often times we are simply doing what locals do in every instance. Fiddling the system a bit is what is done in many places ... and they'd call you a fool if you didn't do it. It's expected. I'm sure you've seen this.

It's not disrespecting individual people ... just the system itself ... which is often USURY. (insurance companies especially)

I'd sooner slip a fiver to the underpaid migra official to allow me through ... and see him smile than be forced to plow through mountains of paperwork that makes no sense ... and then PAY for that privilege.
Yes, it's unfair to the poor who can't possibly pay. But they have to start their revolution, not me.

We can't change the system, just have to operate practically and fairly within it. Yes, it perpetuates corruption ... but sometimes there are no other options.

My respect goes out ONE ON ONE to real people face to face, not institutions.

Be kind, share and smile. Karma!

Laws are fantastic until they are applied to you or your family members, then watch the hypocrisy start. Usually applies to middle class families in my experience.
Agree with mollydog, sometimes you just have to pay that fee and if you are white then it's going to cost, as we can afford it..... Apparently. If you suffer righteous indignation over this then don't travel

No righteous indignation here; if you want to be dishonest, that's your look out.

Justify it any way you like but you aren't fooling anyone except yourself.

There's a difference between (some of) what you describe and reporting a bike stolen and then selling it for parts, whether or not the buyer was in on it.

I'm surprised by the number of people who think this is OK (or not, actually).

Look it's easy to target someone and then stereo type, if a well to do person stops at a hotel and takes something from a room they are not going to say lets just not have well to do people stopping here, but if one person on a bike or motorbike takes something they have a target, that makes it easy for them, I've stayed in some nice places where the owners have thought of not letting me stay because I rode up on a bike and I look bad dirty and mean, after a wash and a change of clothes they didn't know I was the guy on the bike.
I've also found that if you ask you sometimes get or maybe a few euros helps,

Docsherlock, I think your comment just about nailed it

There is moral ambiguity in both the world and this thread.

But the moral ambiguity is particularly prevalent within secular societies.

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Dave

I guess everyone just lives the way they feel comfortable with themselves. I personally don't dig fraud or theft or hooky documents however it is dressed up and it definitely affects others going forwards.

Insurance scams (and bike theft) for bikes a bit uncommon here in USA, maybe more prevalent in UK? I'm not a fan in insurance companies (a rant for another thread) but would never do as you suggest or condone it ... and guys I ride with wouldn't either.

But I don't have a problem selling off MY bike in a foreign country ... even though it may be against local rules. It's the buyers problem to get it registered and legal. If the govt. misses out on usury fees ... my heart bleeds.
That's what happens when you charge 400% duty on imports.

In US, insurance scams drive up costs for everyone, giving fodder for companies to jack rates even higher. Poor things.

High duty rates are usually due to non-existent taxation from other sources such as income or land.

Just because YOU see it as unfair does not make it so. So effectively you are stealing from the government.

If the "the government is corrupt, so I can be dishonest" line works for you that's your lookout. What you are in fact doing is depriving a poor government of money it is due under the laws it has created. This impacts the people of the country in which you and others travel by, for example, making less money available for medical care, roads, defense, pensions and so on. You will no doubt argue that it is a small amount of money so it doesn't matter, but if everyone took that stance what would happen?

Would you dodge tax in your own country? If not, don't do it abroad. It really is that simple.

Some might view such an attitude as some have expressed thus far as somewhat colonial and/or arrogant.

Those are good points and shows the moral dilemma and possible hypocrisy we can be backed into.

Just my opinion but I feel 400% tax is unfair ... to everyone. And it's the locals who will be the first to find work-a-rounds to overcome such overzealous revenue enhancement ... legal or not.

One: the individual income tax for U S citizens is illegal and has been proven so in every court from city, county, state, federal and the supreme court. But, every legal employer requires employees to sign a W-4 form that is is the employees voluntary agreement to pay taxes to the state and federal government as required.

OK, so if you cheat or neglect to pay taxes you are violating an agreement you made in order to have legal employment.

Two: The TVIP temporary vehicle import permit issued when you (a tourist) enter your vehicle/ motorcycle into a foreign country clearly states that you voluntarily agree not to sell your vehicle/motorcycle in that country. So, if the vehicle/motorcycle was sold by a tourist having signed a TVIP in country, that makes the purchaser in possession of a vehicle/motorcycle and although the new owner might buy insurance, the insurance will not pay damages because in the fine print of all insurance policies it is clearly stated that the insurance only covers legally licensed /drivers/riders of vehicles/motorcycles legally operating. If the motorcycles title changes hands illegally, from that point whatever insurance is purchased WILL NOT PAY DAMAGES. And yes, the very first thing insurance agencies do before paying personal injury or property damage claims is investigate the transfer of title etc of the vehicle/motorcycle.

I worked for the international Red Cross Cruz Roja in Mexico for three years visiting tourists in Mexican jails mostly in jail due to not operating vehicles/motorcycles legally in Mexico and having had accidents involving personal injury or extensive property damage. Many - the majority thought they had a valid Mexican insurance policy, but the insurance agency discovered an illegality in the title or in the drivers permit and refused to pay bail and damages.

The back log on - the docket - in many foreign countries is years , not months - and that is just to make an appearance before a judge, - and with invalid insurance you stay in jail until the accident case is resolved whether you are at fault or not.

So, while in the States, the IRS enforces tax collection the fact that insurance companies will not pay if the "insured" vehicle/motorcycle is discovered to have been illegally purchased or the driver/rider does not have the required driving permit enforces the agreement not to sell vehicles/motorcycles after being entered into a country on a TVIP.

Three: FYI - there is no "no mans land" between borders where vehicle can be transferred, this is a scam created by those wanting to assure new buyers that the title transfer is legal if done in "no man's land" between borders. Countries borders are adjacent.

xfiltrate eat, drink and know the facts.

Two things i dislike, liars and thieves. And they can,t be trusted.

slightly different angle, but I really seriously object to people going to another country and treating it as their own personal rally raid. It's a big problem in Morocco and could ultimately lead to tings like bans to vehicles using anything but established tracks. I t does seem to be a problem encountered more with people from some countries than others.

Vandalism of important sites and littering is just another.

I read an account somewhere, can't remember where now, of someone taking a group to task for littering in a culturally important and sensitive area of the desert, the response 'why should we care, we aren't going to be coming here again'

Some people seem to have no consideration or interest in the consequences of their actions on those that follow, whether it's paying overly large bribes, throwing sweets to the kids, speeding or littering, just no thought beyond their own little bubble of enjoyment.

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014

Now there's a question, whether many of the people I've encountered in other countries over the years( anyone been to Rosso recently!) who seem to fall into those categories are just the usual low lifes who gather around borders, bus and train stations, hotels etc on the lookout for opportunistic encounters or whether they're normal citizens of a society that has different standards / rules from those we here live by.

For example, are "border helpers" just free enterprise in action or quasi criminal? Just because I've never had to pay a local to get me across the border into France or into the US doesn't mean they don't serve a legitimate purpose and are at least tolerated on other borders - or does it? Trip reports here are riddled with stories of encounters with "fixers", some of which have been welcomed and others not, some of which have gone well and others where it's been costly or worse. For some they're just exploitative chancers and for others they're a low cost short cut through time consuming bureaucracy.

If we visit a country and then behave in ways that are normal by their standards but unacceptable by ours what, if anything, are we guilty of? Does "when in Rome etc" apply or should we continue to maintain what to us would be some kind of higher standard. A small example - many years ago I travelled from Dakar - Bamako by train, a trip that took 36hrs. During that time most, if not all, of my fellow travellers took to throwing their food leftovers out the train windows and on talking to some of them was told that this was normal practice, what everyone does. That wouldn't really be acceptable on the Chiltern Line into London. So, should I have thrown my scraps like everyone else or would that be the slippery slope to moral decline?

There's no doubt that criminal behaviour is beyond the pale but in many countries exactly what is criminal is open to a degree of interpretation - an accusation of speeding (or half a dozen other things) that magically vanishes when €20 is found in the back of a passport for example. Was I guilty of an offence or a victim of exploitation? Moral codes vary across the planet so I suppose it's not surprising that not everyone plays by the rules you (=we) were brought up with. Even within societies people have different priorities so I suppose it's equally not surprising that you'll meet people who behave in ways you wouldn't. Exactly how much to adapt (and whether it's possible / desirable to do so) and who we trust are decisions each of us makes when we travel and we take the consequences of our conclusions.