I find it amazing how people are willing to commit fraud, eg: selling bike and reporting it stolen; ignore laws (insurance?) and generally disrespect the country (ies) in which they are guests, yet if someone did that in their own countries they would be horrified. And it only makes life harder for the next traveller going through. I have been refused a room because the last bike traveller had gone off with the towels.

There is a guy from the forum going around Argentina and Brasil with an "offensively" loud exhaust pipe and he even gets a "like"

Its not that the locals don't give a shit its that most of the time they are too polite to say something.

Some take towels to put under their tank bag. Some even leave the old towel behind at the next hotel to take a fresh one.

Some take 'souvenirs' from hotels.

Some view the 'high cost' of a hotel as an invitation to take something.

They do this in their own country too.

True, some never learn that we are ambassadors for our little niche of travelers on bikes. I've seen bad behavior for decades and my fellow countrymen can be some of the worst offenders. (USA)

In Mexico, especially Baja, the rich Buggy and Monster truck racers think Mexico belongs to them because they drop a lot of coin while they are there. No rules for them. Sure, it helps their economy but that's no cause to be RUDE and disrespectful.

Some think USA is doing Mexicans a favor by letting so many millions work illegally in our country ... so have the attitude "They owe us". You can see where this is going. Not pretty. But there is hope.

Not ALL racers or tourists are like this ... many do good deeds South of the border setting up all manor of charity organizations. Millions are donated in Baja alone.

A retired Doctor/riding buddy helps to run a clinic, brings free eye glasses, even copped a unused Mamogram machine. (this is a BIG deal)

He's treated like a Saint, everyone knows him. He's Danish, not American. Oddly, his Spanish sucks and I have to translate for him ... yet he speaks 4 other languages perfectly! (Danish, Swedish, German, English)

That bit about ruining it for the next rider through is SO TRUE. I've been victim of this myself, I'm sure many others have as well. One bad reaction can color your whole experience in that country or region. So BE NICE, DON'T CHEAT or STEAL or disrespect ... think of the next guy coming through after you!

Having a bit of language can smooth ruffled feathers.
Sadly, seems to be folks who speak none can have (or cause) problems. I've witnessed this many times. Typically they think the locals are cheating them ... but often it's just lack of communication. Can create bad blood that carries over to the next poor bastard riding through.

Not that Gringos (any foreigner) don't get cheated ... it happens ... but fairly rare in my experience over last 40 years. Communication is key.

When in doubt try to get a bi-lingual person to help translate, work out the issue. This is good practice at borders, hotels, Shops, embassies (English spoken at most).

Worth it to PAY a Helper in this situation. I did this in Thailand and worked out GREAT. (bike rental deal), cost me $4.

When in Malaysia , doing a bike purchase the agreements went all over the place, even after the money changed hands, which at that time I just ignored it.
Later when I mentioned this to my brother in law , he just said "This is Malaysia", n so it was , whenever similar occurances came up ,we would just say "This is Malaysia", my wife is an chinese -malaysian come American now.
People just do things different in other places.?

This has come up before in various guises, from using forged and photo-shopped documents to this kind of stuff and also hooky insurance.

Some travelers seem to think it's mighty smart to be able to get a way with it.

IMHO it is not completely dissociated from the "throwing money around types" who think they are better than the indigenous population because they hold a certain passport or have money.

I believe it explains, along with natural envy, why foreigners are often despised and also targeted for robbery in some countries.

To a limited extent, some of it is unavoidable e.g. if you are hustled for a bribe at a border by the border guard, you gotta pay it if you want to get in. But acting like honesty is only for when one is at home and like it's one-up-man-ship to get away with breaking laws that apply often for very good reasons e.g. insurance, vehicle reggo, carnets, is extremely disrespectful and arrogant.

Understand your POV here but I see significant differences between disrespecting individuals vs. circumventing arcane, randomly enforced regs forced upon the public by greedy corporations or corrupt govt. agencies or Tin Pot officials.

Often times we are simply doing what locals do in every instance. Fiddling the system a bit is what is done in many places ... and they'd call you a fool if you didn't do it. It's expected. I'm sure you've seen this.

It's not disrespecting individual people ... just the system itself ... which is often USURY. (insurance companies especially)

I'd sooner slip a fiver to the underpaid migra official to allow me through ... and see him smile than be forced to plow through mountains of paperwork that makes no sense ... and then PAY for that privilege.
Yes, it's unfair to the poor who can't possibly pay. But they have to start their revolution, not me.

We can't change the system, just have to operate practically and fairly within it. Yes, it perpetuates corruption ... but sometimes there are no other options.

My respect goes out ONE ON ONE to real people face to face, not institutions.

Be kind, share and smile. Karma!

Laws are fantastic until they are applied to you or your family members, then watch the hypocrisy start. Usually applies to middle class families in my experience.
Agree with mollydog, sometimes you just have to pay that fee and if you are white then it's going to cost, as we can afford it..... Apparently. If you suffer righteous indignation over this then don't travel

There's a difference between (some of) what you describe and reporting a bike stolen and then selling it for parts, whether or not the buyer was in on it.

I'm surprised by the number of people who think this is OK (or not, actually).

One negative aspect of the Hubb I have noticed over the years is there can be a tendency for some members to get "high and mighty." It is easy to start projecting your view of traveling as the only right way to do it.

I think 99.9% of the members on here are not stealing towels from hotel rooms.

Note: I find it much more interesting to read a ride report about a 23 year old French guy working in China who illegally purchased a DR350, had a fake Chinese drivers license made up, and rode all the way back to France, than I do to read about a guy on an R1200gs who stayed in $200 hotel rooms every night.

If, I get a flat on the side of the road. I will put my money on the French guy stopping to help me versus the R1200gs guy who paid all the "proper" fees in every country.

It is easy to be petty.

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http://www.journeyrider.net Latin America blog (07-8)

There's a whole argument to be made about sitting on the moral high ground and throwing stones into the mire below but it was the bit about stealing towels I really wanted to comment on. Talking to people I know who work in hotels they say that quite a few towels and other items are kept as "souvenirs" and it's a particular problem in the more upmarket establishments where towels etc are personalised with the hotel's name. Many people don't see it as theft, just one step up from taking the little shampoo bottles / soap. Likewise people wandering around the gardens taking cuttings from plants don't see they're doing anything wrong.

A month or so ago I stayed in a somewhat "humble" chain hotel in Rapid City, South Dakota where there was a framed notice on the check-in desk telling you in advance how much you'd be charged for missing items - towels were $10 from memory, but also on the list were hair dryer, iron, chair, TV, bed and furniture. Quite how you'd get a double bed or a desk out past reception and into your pick-up I'm not quite sure but at least you'd know from the list how much your card would be debited when they found out. Whether that counts as theft or just "advance purchase" again I'm not quite sure but at least you'd know where the line was.

I've been passed by guys on GS's many times when pulled over, broke down or had a flat. Not so much as a wave.

Who stopped for us ?? Wait for it ... Harley guys!

There would appear to be more than a few HUBB members who feel that varying degrees of dishonesty are acceptable; I don't know about towels, but I seem to read of theft, fraud and hooky documentation with recommendations about how to do it quite regularly.

I'm not sure generalizing about riders of particular marques is helpful; what you have written sounds like inverted snobbery or class envy (also quite prevalent on this site from time to time) and it has driven away at least one very interesting contributor who just plain got cheesed off with it.

I think Grant & Susan rode a BMW, Tiffany Coates rides one and also a number of other folk who would probably help a stranded rider. Have I made my point yet?

Gotta agree with docksherlock, I've been riding for >30 years on a number of different marques. Today it happens to be a GSA. I've had roadside help on a number of occasions and in return I've given it. It's not about the bike it's about the mentality of the person riding it, If a GS(A) rides on past you then please assume that the rider is a jerk, not ALL GS(A) riders.....

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A big boy did it and ran away.

Certainly not all jerks. I ride with several BMW GS guys, have done over 20 years. Part of why some riders won't stop to help is they see two or three riders already pulled over and figure broke down bike/rider has plenty of help. Fair enough.

But on rare occasion I've been passed when solo. Usually I wasn't broke down and never waved the rider over and didn't have helmet on side of road (universal sign for help), so I'll cut slack there. But must say, we've had more Harley guys stop than any other brand. No idea why.

Problem sometimes happens with big groups of bikes ... BMW or any brand. They're in their own world, don't always stop to help others because they want keep up with the ride. (I've done this)

I would avoid over-analyzing all this ... everyone's perceptions are different, usually subjective, not based on fact. When it really counts ALL riders help.
(like at crash site ... I've been on scene at dozens )

I see it on other sites as well, I'm on a Toyota Hilux site and some of the guys with older trucks give the newer trucks flak. I don't understand it, it doesn't happen the other way round. If you have a nice shiny new motor you wouldn't take the piss out of someone with an older one. Maybe it's envy, maybe inverted snobbery, maybe it's parochialism, maybe they're just cocks, who knows!

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1990 Landcruiser H60. Full rebuild completed 2014