I they're the same heated grips as the 'previous' model, I would stay well clear, even if free! I paid around £200 for mine and they were useless. I'd be interested to see what the mpg of the 'adventure sport' model is suggested as being, though. More fuel capacity buy heavier bike - will 5l add an appreciably longer distance? With the GS ADV being 30l, even 24l doesn't seem that much.

At the NEC last year, Honda made a big deal about the AT being simple (relatively, I appreciate) and robust for travel. Not sure how the newer one will fit into this mould?

Also, I appreciate hat the lithium ion battery will be lighter, but are there any other benefits over lead? If yes, I might look into a replacement!

I don't know, I have new lithium ion battery on my ktm exc and don't see any benefits. When cold have to crank 2 or 3 times, while the lead starts my honda at first...

That's not great. My lead battery so far doesn't like the cold, and it's not even that cold in the UK yet! Guess I'll avoid the LI one, then!

It's clear Honda's Africa Twin still seems deficient in a few areas despite updates, but at present has a distinct advantage to most of the competition in the "BIG" and possibly middle weight ADV bike category. Sales are, and will continue strong ... for now. No discounts of any note yet on Africa Twins here in bike rich San Francisco Bay Area.

But ... as we know KTM, Yamaha and BMW all have new models on the way. Within a year we should see Yamaha's new Tenere' T7 and KTM's 790 Adventure and Duke. Add BMW's new 850 in the mix too.

One thing I would hope Honda address in the Africa Twin is it's lack of horsepower. To match competition, IMO they need to squeeze maybe 10 to 15 more HP out of that flaccid 1000cc parallel twin.

IMO, a Tubeless option should be a must on the AT. NO ONE wants to screw around with TUBES these days. I loath them on my trusty DR650.

I would still always carry a tube (for variety of reasons) but nice to be able to insert a simple plug into puncture and be back on the road in 15 minutes vs. 1 hour pulling wheel off to swap out Tube.

On Li-Ion batteries:
Like lots of old geezers on here I've been suspicious of these batteries. Now that I have one in my new KTM 690 Duke, must say I'm getting to trust the Li-Ion battery in that bike. (PO put it in the bike on day one)

Also been READING a lot about the Science behind this technology and learning how they really work and about their CARE and FEEDING ... which many get WRONG.

Most common mistake punters make is OVER charging their Li-Ion battery using conventional or even so called SMART charger ... yes, they can ruin a Li-Ion batt if left on too long. (OK for short time)

In addition, most resist the idea (it IS counterintuitive) that you have to "waste" battery power by turning on lights or other accessories in order to "warm up" the Li-ion battery which quickly gets it up to 100% power output ... even in below freezing conditions. IT WORKS!

Most Li-ion batts have more CCA to equivalent Lead Acid batt and can sit for a LONG LONG time and not go dead or discharge. They also RECHARGE in record time vs. typical lead acid battery.

If your bike's Alternator does not put out a lot of Watts ... and you run a lot of accessories like heated clothing, grips, Aux lighting, GPS, communication, then you can run down your Li-Ion just like a conventional Lead Acid battery.

The good news is a Li-Ion will recharge back up in less time than a Lead Acid battery ... and mostly all that is required is RIDING the bike with some accessories turned OFF.

For me, I now carry a tiny Anti-Gravity Li-ion jumper battery. Works a treat. Or, carry a small charger to hook up at Hotel at day's end. Good news? Your Li-Ion will be recharged to 100% in an hour .. or less!

well, I know about this, that's the reason you have to crank it 2-3 times to just to warm up the battery but from the user experience standpoint it's a little like step back, isn't it?

Imagine you are camping in Rockies Mounties and in the morning grizzly woke you up, what you do? you jump on motorcycle trying to start it up and run for your life but no luck! battery needs to be warmed up, you need to crank 2-3 times with few seconds pause between...and you're dead

Just in case anyone was considering using the new larger tank with last year's bike, it doesn't appear to be that easy. Although Honda told me at the NEC that there were no changes in the frame between the two bikes, the front fairing is different; this means that you'd need to buy the new tank AND the fairing, quite an outlay! Far easier to get a 5l can!

Re the battery debate, here's a REALLY GOOD article and discussion on the technologies of various batteries.

__________________
Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
------------------------
Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

there is also longer front suspension travel probably because of bigger tank.

I couldn't agree more, and the forthcoming BMW F850GS has tubeless tyres on spoked wheels which is a great step forward. Given the choice in the past between the F800GS and the F650GS twin I twice chose the F650GS due to it having alloys wheels and therefore tubeless tyres as standard.

There's no tubeless option on smaller KTMs so I run mousses on my KTM 690 Enduro. No need to carry tyre levers (tire irons), bike support, spare tubes, compressor. The first set of mousses I ran for 9,500 km, the second set for 7,500 km. Now on my third set. The decision to fit new mousses was more a concern whether they would last another 4,000 km for the next trip rather than them being at end of life.

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

wonder how mousses fail, I mean what happens actually with the wheel when mouses breaks. Can you still ride at least slowly?

Been thinking about fitting them to my 500 exc but still a bit expensive, 100 euro or so vs 5 euro for a tube...I understand no mouses yet for heavier bikes like tenere etc?

The problem with BMW spoked tubeless wheels in the past has been how soft and weak they were. (Akront I believe?) Hopefully new generation spoked tubeless wheels are a bit tougher?

That's incredible!

I hear there is a "newer" less expensive Mousse product now? Which one are you using? I've never used Mousse inserts but what I always heard was about how HARD they were to install/remove. In the Africa Dakar the teams used to change to new Mousse inserts everyday. Now? Not sure.

I guess on the BIG powerful twins of the old days the Mousse inserts would melt from super high speed running. (over 100 mph)

Obviously OK on your 690. Are you able to change them yourself or does a shop do it? I heard in old days it was a 3 man job. Can any shop do this ... or?

The Michelin tire team at Africa Dakar had special proprietary (or had) equipment to do this job quickly. Now, I hear rumors it's done more easily.

What do you know about this? Seems to me it would make GREAT sense on a 650 class or lighter bike if highway speeds were kept moderate ? (maybe under
70 mph?)

I hear a Mousse is about equal to running about 12 to 14 PSI in your tires. True?

And what about this new mousse product I've heard of? Any info on that?

We've now clocked up 57000 klms on a 16 AT, riding it from Australia to Greece. My thoughts are as follows.

The suspension is cheap and far too soft, especially if riding two up. Additionally we in Australia are finding that the internal hard anodising is wearing away prematually. Honda Australia is aware of the issue, but as yet there has been no determination. I've resprung and revalved the rear Showa to take the weight. I've replaced the front with an Ohlins...........no more excessive diving under brakes. Otherwise too early to make further comment.

The rear right wheel bearing often fails prematurely. I've have now replaced it 3 times. Interestingly some other owners are getting 50000 plus klms. But many and I do mean many in Australia are experiencing early failure of this bearing, like we have. I've now fitted a 4206 dbl row bearing in place of the 6204 original, along with a narrower spacer. Lets see what happens.

I don't give two hoots about tubeless rims. If you are serious about going off road then you need tubes. Ok, I get it about the convenience. but my thoughts are that tose whom wish for tubeless rims either are too lazy to remove tyres or simply don't know how to efficiently. I did a rear Mitas, which can be a brute of a tyre at 13000ft in Kyrgzstan in 1 hr and 20 minutes. So whats the big deal?

The power for the bike I think is adequate. Ok, it's no power house, but for it's intended purpose I think it is fine.

I'm a huge fan of the KISS principal, thus do not care for ride by wire and other electronic "enhancements". What ever is wrong with a push/pull dbl throttle body cable? Nothing I would suggest.

Initially I was VERY disappointed with the 18.8 litre tank. It simply is not big enough, particularly in Australia. Buuuuuuuut I've come around to accepting it. At no time have we run out of fuel. if you take it easy you can squeeze up to 450 klms out of the tank. But I do mean taking it easy. None the less all AT models should be about 26 litres. That would nail it I reckon.

My spokes have rusted as all 16 & 17 model bikes have, so no surprise there. Because the bike is out of Australia, Honda Australia won't warranty the bike. That annoys me off big time. especially after their huge advertising campaign at release date about the bikes world traveling capabilities.

Other than the wheel bearings, the bike has not let me down. The unstressed characteristics help in this regard. I've run on 86 octane with no ill effects. Another argument to keep the engine low stressed and by definition under powered in some people minds. (not mine)

The seat is a shocker, but we had that modified prior to our departure Aug 16.

Those that plan to do a lot of off road, remove the windscreen support bracket and weld it properly then it shouldn't brake. This typically only occurs when you mount a GPS to the cross bracket.

If you are concerned about braking the right rider footrest hanger. Carry a m10 fine x 150mm hex or caphead bolt as an emergency back up. Because we have soft bags fitted to both the eng bars and the rear racks it's very unlikely that we will brake this hanger. I have dropped the bike numerous times and so far so good.

Hmm, I'm sure there are other observations, but that is what springs to mind just for now.

Our blog can be found here Chasing Rainbows, RTW on a H.A.T. | Adventure Rider

I just had the chance to ride from Senegal to Europa with 2 AfricaTwins. The old and the very new one http://schoene-motorradtouren.de/?report=senegal

There was never a way we had a lack of horespower. SpeedLimit was 100 km/h, we were on holliday, lots of animales and people on the road and no police was chasing us but the consumtion of petrol was to high. If we would have traveled by car we would have saved a lot.

Adventure starts were the asphalt stops but on gravel or mud you cant even get 50 horsepower on the ground without the wheels spinning. Thats also why traveling makes the tires last much longer. While traveling with luggage you dont exelerate and use your brakes so hard.

For real adventure both AfricaTwins were waaay to heavy. Think of situations were you manover on a crowdet marked place to park in front of a restaurant to be able to watch your stuff while eating or of you try to reach a nice wild camping spot in the evening.

I prefere any rented 4 dollars per day scooter that i use to ride for thousends of kilometers in India or Asia to this. The light and easy to manover 125cc scooters have more adventure riding qualitys as any new "adventure bikes" on the marked and can go 100 km per hour as well but with just 3 liters on 100 km: http://adventure-travel-experience.de/?report=mumbai

My "Lack of Horsepower comment on Africa Twin" relates more to how it stacks up against it's competition ... mainly KTM, and the fact the Honda AT is down 30 to 50 HP vs KTM's top models. (1090, 1190, 1290) For some, this matters.

Totally correct that for 3rd world back country exploration, no one can use 160 HP provided on the KTM 1290 Adventure ... and these big bikes can actually be a hindrance in crowded cities, deep mud or super knarly tracks. But for smooth, modern open roads in USA, EU ... they excel.

Like you, in Asia I got along fine riding 100cc to 125cc rental bikes. In fact, easier to make it through mud on little bike vs. any full size GS, KTM or even a 650 class dual sport like my DR650 or even a XR400 Honda or DRZ400.

My Honda comment might matter to some. Mainly ON Road Riders who rarely leave USA or EU on their bike and ride in groups, riding fast, mainly nice paved roads, mountain passes and such.

It's all good and I currently do similar riding ... but that's not exactly ADV riding or travel, it's just hooning around with your buddies having fun ... which is fine.

Some rumors were around about Honda bringing out a smaller, lighter iteration of the Africa Twin. Perhaps using their 500cc Parallel twin or 650? Or? No idea if they will follow up with such a bike.

I think it might out sell the BIG 1000cc Africa Twin, if done well.

KTM are putting A LOT into their new 790. In a year or so we will see the "off road" version of this bike, it's first iteration will be the road going 790 Duke, which should be for sale late this year.

If your travels are mainly wide open USA/Canada and central EU areas, then a bigger, more road oriented bike can work for many. We only need look how popular the R1200GS has been last 10 years and still is! This, a $25,000 usd
motorbike!

But this is not because the bike is good its because the Advertising is good (same with Harley). It matches peoples dreams. If someone is wasting his lifetime in an office money is not a problem. These people dream of doing an adventure but are to affraid of actually doing it so they buy the GS and will never find out its actually the wrong bike for a real adventure. To ride to Starbucks and back its doing fine and thats all they do. They will never compare it to a scooter in Thailand. They say its good after just a few Kilometers and dont even want a $25.000 bike to last for 200.000 km http://www.motorradonline.de/dauerte...en.559102.html



Yes i have been riding the big KTM and was surprised how it feels like my Honda Transalp. Sitting position etc. Only it has 3 times the power and costs 15 times the price. Its fun for sunday riders if you ignore any speedlimit but for everyday use you dont need al this http://afrikamotorrad.de/?report=tourguide