"Myth: Lithium batteries must be kept fully charged at all times

LFP batteries tend to function best when kept between 13.05 and 13.6 volts, but if they are discharged below 10 volts, that messes with the chemical balance in the electrolyte. An LFP battery discharged below 13 volts is unlikely to even start the motorcycle, which would lead many riders to try to jump or bump start the bike. This is a mistake; the unique charging requirements of an LFP battery (see the next myth) mean that bump starting the bike and engaging the motorcycle’s onboard charging system is likely to damage the LFP battery’s cells, causing them to eventually overheat and possibly catch fire."


I think the author needs to get out more ... reports from DOZENS of Li Po battery users I've read indicates bump starting is perfectly fine. Once bike starts the bikes charging system takes over as normal and will bring the Li Po batt back up to full capacity ... and very quickly vs. AGM.

Unlikely bike will catch fire (super hyperbole there!) as long as the bikes charging system is not faulty. There is a very remote chance that if the Regulator/Rectifier are faulty then it could allow for battery over charge.
But even then, a FIRE is quite unlikely.

Most times the "no Start" with Li-Po is the batt needs to be warmed up! So
switch on your headlight and wait a minute. Try again. Many many Li-Po noobs miss this simple fact. As I said earlier, it's counterintuitive but that's how they work.

"Myth: Any charger will do for LFP batteries

If you buy an LFP battery for your motorcycle, don’t cheap out on the charger. It is critically important to buy a charger that is optimized for use on LFP batteries for a number of reasons. The most important reason is that the proper charger “understands” the LFP battery’s unique charging requirements, which are not the same as those for a lead-acid battery—and that includes AGM batteries, which use the same basic electrolyte as your grandfather’s vintage pickup truck’s battery. Bikes with “always on” electronics (clocks, alarms, etc.) will discharge an LFP battery fast; remember that while the lead equivalency may be high, the actual amp-hour capacity is low, and while a good LFP battery charger can bring a discharged battery back from as low as one volt, it has to be done properly, by using low current until the LFP is above 12.8 volts, when it can then be hit with higher current for faster charging. A lead-acid battery charger uses high current at low voltage, which could easily damage that expensive LFP battery.

Both AGM and LFP batteries benefit from being on a charger when the motorcycle is not being ridden, but it is more important for the LFP batteries, which also MUST use a purpose-specific charger. If you have a mix of AGM and LFP batteries in your motorcycle fleet, that means you need more than one charger, and don’t mix them up. In the words of Ghostbuster Dr. Egon Spengler, “That would be bad.”

Once again the author is incorrect. He should study up on what the major Li-Po battery manufacturers have to say on this subject.

I looked at Shorai and Anti-Gravity (I own and use Both) and both companies suggest a conventional "smart charger" like a Battery Tender are FINE for charging and maintaining their Li-Po batteries ... with the caveat that you MUST NOT leave the charger on for too long. You should not plug in and come back in a month. But you can charge the Li-Po until fully charged ... then remove the charger. Also, not a good idea to use a HI AMP charger suited for Automotive. What you find is that Li-Po batts recharge in record time ... so no waiting around for hours like a discharged Lead Acid batt.

The author also fails to mention just how much LONGER a Li-Po battery can sit unused and uncharged and not discharge. This, to me, is a big one! How about months?

Granted, if your bike has an passive alarm system or other electronic items that create a constant parasitic draw ... then yes, even the mighty Li-Po can discharge over time. But even my super high tech Ducati does NOT discharge the Batt parasitically. (no alarm, GPS or Comms)

If Shorai (Number ONE producer of Motorcycle Li-Po batteries) says its OK to use my Battery Tender ... I'll go with that. And remember, Shorai SELL their own Li-Po specific charger ... but DO NOT demand users purchase their charger
with veiled threats of disaster as the BMWMOA guy suggests. Talk about creating myths!

And if you look into the hundreds (mostly NON BMW riders) using Li-Po batteries world wide today, this fact can be verified and many other mis-statements above corrected from actual long time Li-Po users.

One mistake many new Li-Po users make is they buy a too low output battery.
If the correct sized Li-Po battery is chosen, most times riders have good experience.

The problem with BMW spoked tubeless wheels in the past has been how soft and weak they were. (Akront I believe?) Hopefully new generation spoked tubeless wheels are a bit tougher?

That's incredible!

I hear there is a "newer" less expensive Mousse product now? Which one are you using? I've never used Mousse inserts but what I always heard was about how HARD they were to install/remove. In the Africa Dakar the teams used to change to new Mousse inserts everyday. Now? Not sure.

I guess on the BIG powerful twins of the old days the Mousse inserts would melt from super high speed running. (over 100 mph)

Obviously OK on your 690. Are you able to change them yourself or does a shop do it? I heard in old days it was a 3 man job. Can any shop do this ... or?

The Michelin tire team at Africa Dakar had special proprietary (or had) equipment to do this job quickly. Now, I hear rumors it's done more easily.

What do you know about this? Seems to me it would make GREAT sense on a 650 class or lighter bike if highway speeds were kept moderate ? (maybe under
70 mph?)

I hear a Mousse is about equal to running about 12 to 14 PSI in your tires. True?

And what about this new mousse product I've heard of? Any info on that?

We've now clocked up 57000 klms on a 16 AT, riding it from Australia to Greece. My thoughts are as follows.

The suspension is cheap and far too soft, especially if riding two up. Additionally we in Australia are finding that the internal hard anodising is wearing away prematually. Honda Australia is aware of the issue, but as yet there has been no determination. I've resprung and revalved the rear Showa to take the weight. I've replaced the front with an Ohlins...........no more excessive diving under brakes. Otherwise too early to make further comment.

The rear right wheel bearing often fails prematurely. I've have now replaced it 3 times. Interestingly some other owners are getting 50000 plus klms. But many and I do mean many in Australia are experiencing early failure of this bearing, like we have. I've now fitted a 4206 dbl row bearing in place of the 6204 original, along with a narrower spacer. Lets see what happens.

I don't give two hoots about tubeless rims. If you are serious about going off road then you need tubes. Ok, I get it about the convenience. but my thoughts are that tose whom wish for tubeless rims either are too lazy to remove tyres or simply don't know how to efficiently. I did a rear Mitas, which can be a brute of a tyre at 13000ft in Kyrgzstan in 1 hr and 20 minutes. So whats the big deal?

The power for the bike I think is adequate. Ok, it's no power house, but for it's intended purpose I think it is fine.

I'm a huge fan of the KISS principal, thus do not care for ride by wire and other electronic "enhancements". What ever is wrong with a push/pull dbl throttle body cable? Nothing I would suggest.

Initially I was VERY disappointed with the 18.8 litre tank. It simply is not big enough, particularly in Australia. Buuuuuuuut I've come around to accepting it. At no time have we run out of fuel. if you take it easy you can squeeze up to 450 klms out of the tank. But I do mean taking it easy. None the less all AT models should be about 26 litres. That would nail it I reckon.

My spokes have rusted as all 16 & 17 model bikes have, so no surprise there. Because the bike is out of Australia, Honda Australia won't warranty the bike. That annoys me off big time. especially after their huge advertising campaign at release date about the bikes world traveling capabilities.

Other than the wheel bearings, the bike has not let me down. The unstressed characteristics help in this regard. I've run on 86 octane with no ill effects. Another argument to keep the engine low stressed and by definition under powered in some people minds. (not mine)

The seat is a shocker, but we had that modified prior to our departure Aug 16.

Those that plan to do a lot of off road, remove the windscreen support bracket and weld it properly then it shouldn't brake. This typically only occurs when you mount a GPS to the cross bracket.

If you are concerned about braking the right rider footrest hanger. Carry a m10 fine x 150mm hex or caphead bolt as an emergency back up. Because we have soft bags fitted to both the eng bars and the rear racks it's very unlikely that we will brake this hanger. I have dropped the bike numerous times and so far so good.

Hmm, I'm sure there are other observations, but that is what springs to mind just for now.

Our blog can be found here Chasing Rainbows, RTW on a H.A.T. | Adventure Rider

Great review of your AT and trip so far! I've now read a bit of your report on ADV Rider, great stuff. Thanks for taking the time to share!.

Very surprised your Shinko 805 has done so well. I too heard negatives. So GREAT to find a long lasting tire that works well off road yet survives highway riding.

I think you guys may keep more moderate speeds even on motorways? I know on long trips I always go slower ... like not over 60 to 65 MPH to preserve rear tire when far from getting another.

If we average 75 to 80 mph, most rear knobbies (TKC, Kenda Big Block, Michelin T63 and others) evaporate quickly doing high speeds.

You were wondering about a good front. One possible could be an odd ball I've found for my DR650. The IRC TR-8. I've tried Heidinau and Mitas, IMO, very untrustworthy on wet paved roads and weird handling depending on what rear tire you pair it with. But last well.

Both TKC and IRC do well on pavement within reason and you can carve the dry corners fairly hard.

Both the TKC and IRC developed "weird" wear patterns at about 6000 miles. But I ride very hard and brake hard on paved roads. So I expect that is why. Gentle riding I'm sure will bring a different result. BTW, the IRC out lasted the TKC and is MUCH cheaper (in USA anyway)

Interesting about repeated rear wheel bearing failures. The Suzuki DR650 has a propensity for this as well ... with disastrous results if you don't catch it early.

The solution that an Aussie guy (BergDonk on ADV Rider) came up with (and it seems to really HELP!) is to maintain fairly FRESH Cush Drive Rubber inserts.

This apparently helps keep everything more in line. When worn, hubb can move some, exerting pressure on wheel and hubb bearings. Just a thought, no idea if it's pertinent to your AT.

On the DR650 the Cush Drive rubbers only last about 10K miles at most. After that you can feel a roughness in drive train (feels like failing clutch basket) ... and of course you're on the road to failed wheel/hubb bearings. They look normal but somehow stop working. I've been through this on my 60K mile DR650.

On the DR650 when the central hubb bearing fails it can take out the entire hubb, leaving it unusable. It's only happened to a few owners, and mostly in Oz doing very hard, off road work.

Your videos were scary as Hell on those narrow tracks with 1000 meter drop offs. YIKES! Even worse than Death Road in Bolivia!

Interesting findings regards possible over tightening of triple clamps. I remember from my dirt bike Enduro racing days (AMA Enduro) to be very careful not to CRUSH the forks. They are soft ... and many crush them.

Those Ohlins are beauties. Hope you can get them dialed in for those rugged tracks you seem so fond of. Next up? Ohlins shock?

BTW, IMO, if you eliminate front end dive you may end up with a rather HARSH ride on the rough, bumpy bits. Fork dive is part of reality on big dual sport bikes.

The way to mitigate it is to use rear brake with front brake. (lightly of course) This will really help reduce fork dive. If me, I'd leave the settings plush and on the soft side unless doing ALL tarmac.

Stay safe out there! all the best.

Hi Mollydog, it seems we concur on most things. I thought the Hidenau's were pure evil and yes they have both strange wear patterns and road "manners". I seem to get high milage out of all my tyres. I put that down to a number of things. I neither accelerate nor brake hard and I maintain high pressures most if the time. 32/42 psi. I 've been pleasantly surprised with the Shinko 805, no bad manners at all that I can detect. By front TKC80 now has 18500 klms on it nd it could go some more. But I will change that in Tessalonika in a few days with a Karoo.

BergDonk is indeed the guru of all things DR, he lives just a 1 1/2 up the road from me.

The Cush blocks on the AT seems OK to me, but it is certainly worth keeping an eye on, thanks for the heads up.

The std front end, particularly two up was simply not up to the task. It's all a trade off, but the Ohlins will give better service for sure. None the less I take on board your comments. It's early days yet but I've only wound the dampening up 4 turns out of 16. I'll continue to play around.

Those roads in the video's weren't actually too bad. But "she whom must be obeyed", is getting a little fed up with "shitty goat tracks" (her words)

I'm glad you liked the blog, this year will be mostly asphalt, but a lot more rain I guess.

Recently I read about many cases of AT frames getting rusty...
Some owner considering even replacing whole frame

I was very eager to get new AT since some time but I must say I was
slowly but effectively cured from that wish by now

A relevant and pertinent point for more than one motorcycle manufacturer these days.

Possibly because of "thin" paint, and yet the car manufacturers do not seem to have similar levels of dissatisfaction with this aspect of the finish of vehicles.

Some would say that the usage of water based paints has led to thinner coatings overall. The trade would disagree, but they would say that.

__________________
Dave

WOW! 18K km is amazing! My TKC did well too, but at round 6K miles
(10K km) the wear pattern started to get weird but that funky tire still handled well. I'm not a fan of Karoo ... but maybe latest ones are better? Been stuck with BMW's guys running Karoo's and quickly running out of tire far away from replacement.

Cool, BergDonk may have some ideas on AT bearings.

One "tell tale" note I remember from Berg's writings was a bit of wiggle in the hubb with bike on stand. On DR650 should not be much wiggle at all.

BTW, you can't tell by looking if Cush rubbers are worn. New and Old, to me, look the same ... but somehow swapping in new tightens things up, smooths out the drive line (this on DR650 ... no idea of affect on your AT)

Hope you two get nice weather. The Ohlins will be "The Dog's ... ". I've got an Ohlins shock on my DR650. When the bike goes, I take the shock with me!

Safe going!

you can swap the tyre the other way around so it will smooth the pattern out, same happened to mine tkc80. Very long lasting tyres, I did over 20k km and I could keep them longer still.

I just had the chance to ride from Senegal to Europa with 2 AfricaTwins. The old and the very new one http://schoene-motorradtouren.de/?report=senegal

There was never a way we had a lack of horespower. SpeedLimit was 100 km/h, we were on holliday, lots of animales and people on the road and no police was chasing us but the consumtion of petrol was to high. If we would have traveled by car we would have saved a lot.

Adventure starts were the asphalt stops but on gravel or mud you cant even get 50 horsepower on the ground without the wheels spinning. Thats also why traveling makes the tires last much longer. While traveling with luggage you dont exelerate and use your brakes so hard.

For real adventure both AfricaTwins were waaay to heavy. Think of situations were you manover on a crowdet marked place to park in front of a restaurant to be able to watch your stuff while eating or of you try to reach a nice wild camping spot in the evening.

I prefere any rented 4 dollars per day scooter that i use to ride for thousends of kilometers in India or Asia to this. The light and easy to manover 125cc scooters have more adventure riding qualitys as any new "adventure bikes" on the marked and can go 100 km per hour as well but with just 3 liters on 100 km: http://adventure-travel-experience.de/?report=mumbai

My "Lack of Horsepower comment on Africa Twin" relates more to how it stacks up against it's competition ... mainly KTM, and the fact the Honda AT is down 30 to 50 HP vs KTM's top models. (1090, 1190, 1290) For some, this matters.

Totally correct that for 3rd world back country exploration, no one can use 160 HP provided on the KTM 1290 Adventure ... and these big bikes can actually be a hindrance in crowded cities, deep mud or super knarly tracks. But for smooth, modern open roads in USA, EU ... they excel.

Like you, in Asia I got along fine riding 100cc to 125cc rental bikes. In fact, easier to make it through mud on little bike vs. any full size GS, KTM or even a 650 class dual sport like my DR650 or even a XR400 Honda or DRZ400.

My Honda comment might matter to some. Mainly ON Road Riders who rarely leave USA or EU on their bike and ride in groups, riding fast, mainly nice paved roads, mountain passes and such.

It's all good and I currently do similar riding ... but that's not exactly ADV riding or travel, it's just hooning around with your buddies having fun ... which is fine.

Some rumors were around about Honda bringing out a smaller, lighter iteration of the Africa Twin. Perhaps using their 500cc Parallel twin or 650? Or? No idea if they will follow up with such a bike.

I think it might out sell the BIG 1000cc Africa Twin, if done well.

KTM are putting A LOT into their new 790. In a year or so we will see the "off road" version of this bike, it's first iteration will be the road going 790 Duke, which should be for sale late this year.

If your travels are mainly wide open USA/Canada and central EU areas, then a bigger, more road oriented bike can work for many. We only need look how popular the R1200GS has been last 10 years and still is! This, a $25,000 usd
motorbike!

But this is not because the bike is good its because the Advertising is good (same with Harley). It matches peoples dreams. If someone is wasting his lifetime in an office money is not a problem. These people dream of doing an adventure but are to affraid of actually doing it so they buy the GS and will never find out its actually the wrong bike for a real adventure. To ride to Starbucks and back its doing fine and thats all they do. They will never compare it to a scooter in Thailand. They say its good after just a few Kilometers and dont even want a $25.000 bike to last for 200.000 km http://www.motorradonline.de/dauerte...en.559102.html



Yes i have been riding the big KTM and was surprised how it feels like my Honda Transalp. Sitting position etc. Only it has 3 times the power and costs 15 times the price. Its fun for sunday riders if you ignore any speedlimit but for everyday use you dont need al this http://afrikamotorrad.de/?report=tourguide

regarding the excessive power - what is laughable they put 160HP on a bike and then have to add riding modes to limit that power in most of the conditions Customer actually will never use all these horses anyway, but he pays for it and economy is booming.

Hi Tremens

Buy one and find out first hand IMO
Had my AT DCT now for 36.000 KM.
It's a great bike with very few issues.

https://www.africatwin.org/threads/f...st-paint.1575/



Quality of the africa twin - Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin Forum