Right, nothing is paid, money comes from donations. When I say "commercial", I mean they now accept ads, which despite super lucrative offers over the years, Baldy, ADV site owner, rejected all until recently. I'm talking multi million dollar offers and all sorts of partnership offers as well.

HUBB and Grant and Susan nearly always took ad revenue. ADV Rider is most ALL USA members, HUBB is UK and Canada based but very diverse, with travelers world wide posting here. Very different.

Figures on ADV Rider membership are based on what is listed somewhere on the ADV Rider forum.
But even if they show a high membership number, you have to figure only a portion are current, active members. Same on all forums. So I guess-ti-mate between 50 and 100K active members on ADV Rider.

That makes sense. Yes, ADVr is a behemoth and I could see why advertisers would want in.

I think I mentioned it earlier, ADVr is my general motorcycle forum and there's a ton of information about everything except their focus on overlanding, where this forum has, what it seems to me, a bigger advantage/focus. I personally prefer the atmosphere of a smaller forum like this, although I also understand their need to grow to stay viable.

At a motorcycle meet a while ago, I bumped into a young couple who in spite of owning some very nice touring motorcycles decided to go touring on BSA Bantams !!!! they had a fantastic time
for myself a clapped out 750 guzzi with 38bhp does just fine, as my riding skills are not great ( read non existant)
but wandering along a narrow road over the swiss alps I got overtaken and laughed with a load if nutters on scooters, 250 Vespas the modern ones, they were having a whale of a time
its all down to how much time you have, how far you want to go
or in most peoples cases the bike they already own
mine was described by journalists as the ideal bike for some one passing their test and to commute on
they just didnt specify how long since passing the test or how far the commute was !!
40 years ago, an old workmate returned to France to see his mates , on a 50cc Motorbike, a Honda, technically a moped, he owned a much bigger bike, but his reason was he wanted to travel light and at the speeds he used to travel then as a Don R , he came back after 2 weeks and had enjoyed his trip and laid a few ghosts to rest, and visited his mates in Normandy
I used to ask him to write about it, I know he took a few pictures, but he said that trip was between him and his mates !
pity it would have made interesting reading

Horses for courses.

My TW200 was perfect in the UK for Lands end to John O'Groats!
My Klr650 was Under powered across the plains of the USA!

If you step off a GS then 10bhp or whatever from a small bike is going to be a disappointment and you'll always be trying to get the thing to go faster. If you're constantly thinking I wish I'd brought something bigger or faster or with more road presence and this thing's so slow its useless then you're never going to get the best out of the trip. You need to change your mindset as well as your motorcycle.

In some respects 'small biking' (50/100/125cc anyway) almost closer to pedal-bike cycling than motorcycling. It's not just a slower, more frustrating version of 'normal' bike touring, it's almost a different activity altogether.

I've done a lot of small bike trips over the years. Three years ago I did 2000 miles through France / Italy on a 125 two weeks before starting a 10,000 mile trip in the US on an 1800cc bike. Both of those trips have been written up in book form (part of the 125 trip even got 3 pages in Bike magazine) and, from an interest point of view, there's not much between them. Stuff happens and that's what you write about. It's just that different stuff happens when you're riding a big bike compared to when you're on a small one.

On the subject of writing, I can understand why some people would be reluctant to commit to paper (or electrons), particularly if there is a personal element to the trip. Writing is both hard and time consuming and, if you're not doing it commercially (i.e. through a publisher), normally brings very little reward.

The 120,000 word book (about half of the US trip mentioned above) I've just finished took me two years to write and will have a circulation of maybe five or ten copies, all of which I will have paid for. So why would I bother other than as a labour of love. Having said that I'm already planning a summer 2020 trip specifically intended to be written as a book afterwards. It involves a 4000 mile trip on a 1970(ish) vintage 250cc two stroke. All I need to do now is find one.



The USA trip book cover:

I kept out of this thread, but all I can say...

I LIKE BIG BIKES!!!!

Did many years on small bikes, then medium, them large. Since then I've had several trips on-and-off on small and medium bikes. And as backofthebeyond says: "If you step off a GS then 10bhp or whatever from a small bike is going to be a disappointment and you'll always be trying to get the thing to go faster." The smaller bikes are always a disappointment for me to the point where I don't enjoy myself and wonder why I'm doing this....


As it is, I think my CRF1000 can do with another 10-15hp

__________________
Squily

Currently riding the KKH in North Pakistan on a Suzuki 150 and am enjoying it immensely, I am one of the faster moving vehicles on the road and have found it easy to ride on some of the dirt roads I have been on.

Oh, I agree. Nothing wrong with big bikes and I've done quite a few trips on some of the biggest around over many years. It really isn't a case of 'when I was a child, I bought as a child, I rode as a child, I saw as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things'.

For me small bikes are more than just a poor, penny pinching, when I grow up I'll be able to afford a real one, substitute for 150bhp, they introduce a different dimension to whatever I'm doing. I've done stuff on small bikes I'd never have been able to do on a big one (and vici versa). I suspect Mark wouldn't swap his KKH 150 Suzuki for this -



no matter how many extra bhp he got.

And neither would I when I was riding through this last winter -

Give the little stuff another chance. To quote Richard Feynman out of context, 'there's plenty of room at the bottom'

Beautiful Winter Pic!

We're kinda going in circles here on this topic .... but for me it's gets back to figuring what sort of riding terrain you will mostly do. If it's all ON Road then I'm much more inclined towards BIG BIKES.

But since I have a dirt bike back ground I also like good off road bikes. To me,
R1200GS is NOT a good off road bike. I love riding the GS (on road) not off road. I've seen what happens when a big KTM or GS falls on a rider. Not always a good outcome!

My DR650 is a pretty good compromise. A true Dual Sport. Pretty good ON Road if set up correctly and somewhat capable off road too, including deep Baja sand, rutted, steep rocky Sierra Trails and wide open Baja Desert rocky tracks. Not bad on a fully loaded bike.

I love little bikes for many countries, mostly rentals for me. Fantastic in Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam and probably India or Pakistan. In that Mud over there, a bike much larger than 150cc is (for me) a "No Go".

Sure, little bikes can be a bit of a drag riding fast North American or Euro roads. You have to adjust your expectations and get used to low road speeds,
limiting packing space and perhaps limited range (depending on set up).

Problem of course on a long trip, you can't always predict road conditions or what roads you might end up on. So choosing a bike can be confusing.
Or ... buy (or rent) the right bike for the specific ride.

Molly - I know you like to pontificate on pretty much any subject here on the HUBB, but if you are going to 'criticise' me, at least get your facts right.


1. Rally-Raid Products is not my company, it belongs entirely to John Mitchinson and his family.


2. I worked with John in developing the CB500X project in 2014, as it was exactly the bike I wanted to build to continue travelling, and he had the engineering expertise and facilities to make those ideas a reality. Subsequently I consider it is still the best compromise as an all-terrain travel bike for the kind of riding I like to do, and consider myself an ongoing ambassador for the machine and the project.


3. Rally-Raid Products financially support/sponsor a number of online forums, including CB500X.com and G310R.com

They are also a regular exhibitor at both the UK and Irish Horizons Unlimited meetings, where they have to pay to attend. They were also one of the first vendors/exhibitors to offer free test-rides to the event attendees.


4. Along with the paid-for websites, they also have dedicated threads in the Vendor section on ADVrider, providing a huge amount of content and a valuable technical resource with regard to their products and more general machine set-up advice (including compatibility with various 3rd party products where that knowledge has been gleaned) - in what has essentially become a community page for owners and potential owners of their modified machines.

I am a regular contributor on their behalf in that regard, together with offering advice in the more general model-specific threads based on my own extensive experience with both my existing CB500X and now the G310GS too; along with other bikes on which I have raced and travelled over the years including the XT660Z, the XR400R and the XT225.


5. Since 2010 I have regularly hosted a series of AV presentations at a dozen or more Horizons Unlimited meetings in both the UK and all over the United States and Canada - most recently at both Virginia and Canada West earlier this year, each with three individual presentations - one on each day.

As I trust you are aware - no one is paid to be a presenter at Horizons Unlimited meetings, and quite apart from the actual travel-to and attendance of these events, producing a series of hour-long AV presentations takes a huge amount of time and effort to create something of presentable and professional quality. I do this since I consider myself to be in a privileged position to travel as extensively as I do, and like to share those experiences in an effort to inspire other travellers who are part of the HUBB community.


6. All of my multi-day trips in recent years have also been catalogued extensively here on the HUBB in the Ride Reports section - I consider them to be both informative and entertaining, and something the users of this forum can enjoy.


As Stuxtttr introduced on a previous page of this thread, I have recently completed an extensive trip all over North America on my G310GS (17,500 miles in total) - having ridden initially from Virginia to California in May, then all the way back east to Toronto Canada in July, before turning round and heading back to California via Horizons Unlimited in Nakusp BC in August.

This latest trip will also be serialised here on the HUBB in the coming weeks, just as soon as I get some time to assemble/edit it - since I am currently in the middle of moving house...

EDIT: condensed ride report from the summer is HERE in Ride-Reports...


So I trust you can now appreciate the amount of support both Rally-Raid Products and I personally offer both Horizons Unlimited, and the wider adventure riding community as a whole.

Jenny x

PS. to keep this post 'on topic' - without wanting to put out any spoilers in regard to my opinion of the all-round 'adventure' capabilities of the G310GS (it's all going to be detailed in my ride report ;o) - suffice to say, it does everything I asked of it (including repeated back-to-back high-mileage days) surprisingly well for what is essentially a small capacity single... However, I would concede that the larger capacity twin-cylinder Honda is a more relaxed machine - particularly at higher speeds when you have a lot of miles to cover. The GS will do it (and not complain), it's just the Honda does it better...

Don't think I added this before but my 250 TTR has given me more smiles per mile than any other bike.

From scratching past Ninjas in Snowdonia on route back from a tour to Ireland or screetching the tyres on Andalucian mountain roads it never ceases to amaze me what a well built and competent bike it is. I've done things on it that I just wouldnt have attempted on a bigger/heavier machine and yes 24bhp! isnt going to rip your guts out but it can still be the fastest vehicle going down a motorway you just have to ring it!

I was in Ireland riding the Dingle penisula road and spotted a fishing boat lying about half a mile away across a bay, the tide was out so I gunned it to the seaward side of the fishing boat and gained a handy shortcut in the process. I just would not have risked that on a bigger/more exspensive machine.

Its only in deep sand that I've really wished for some extra power to pull the bigger gears and the electric start was agodsend at the weston beach race

Hi there!

I'm new in the forum and also quite novice in off-road riding. I'm struggling with the same question (small or big) as I'm about to buy new (used, budget level) motorcyle for longer tours. I prefer small roads, dirt roads, log roads and not very interested in highways. That's the reason to buy small bike (eg. DR350). But on the other hand I live in Northern Europe and like to travel in Mediterranean countries, which means a lot of highways too, where a bigger bike (eg. XL600V) would be much better.

But because I have never ridden a small enduro bike, I'd like to know what is the real difference in dirt roads or trails between say 350cc and 650cc bike? And I mean the difference when the bike is equipped with good street capable enduro tyres (eg. Michelin Anakee) and 30-40kg of luggage.

Could it happen that with these tyres (not knobbies) and luggage the small bike is not so agile any more and difference between them is much smaller?

Hi Snufkin - as you've speculated, if you're going to start riding with 30-40Kg of luggage onboard, then you're unlikely to be fully exploiting the benefits of a smaller/lighter 'trail' bike anyway, so yes, the difference is not going to be quite so marked - although the same would be said for a larger bike carrying the same sort of luggage load too of course, so the smaller bike is still that much lighter to pick up of you drop it for example...

I think as you've ascertained, the requirements for a longer-distance travel bike are not the same as they would be for a single day-out trail-riding in tougher terrain... much more of a priority is going to be comfort and reliability, luggage carrying capacity and longer maintenance intervals etc. - all of which changes your priorities from the outright 'performance' of your bike to the 'overall' performance if you see what I mean?

If you like to take the smaller roads - ie. 100kmh and below type riding, then a smaller capacity bike still has a lot to recommend it (as long as it has a comfortable seat and decent luggage carrying capability), but if you want to hammer down a few hundred kms of Autoroute before (or after) the main part of your trip, then yes, a larger capacity bike is going to make easier work of that kind of riding - which is why a lot of people still chose a 650cc class single-cylinder bike (KLR/XR/DR/GS/KTM690) as it does have the edge over the smaller capacity trail bikes on the open road, but is typically still not quite as large or bulky as a 750+cc twin 'Adventure' bike once you get it on the dirt.

Personally, if you do plan to ride a lot of highway miles, and don't really intend to ride 'hard-core' off road on this particular bike, then for multi-surface adventure riding with luggage, I'd recommend you look at a Honda CB500X with a Rally-Raid wheel and suspension kit fitted - it neatly bridges the gap between a 650cc single off-road, while offering the on-road refinement of a larger twin.

Hope that helps...

Jenny x

Thanks for your reply.

If you look at the problem this way: what parts do you have to skip, if you travel with large bike (650cc) with the luggage and the suitable tyres instead of small bike? The answer is maybe more clear. With large bike you have to skip most of the off-road and nothing else. Some dirt roads and trails maybe more demanding but still possible.

And this takes you to an other question: could you do those part with just smaller bike of should you also have less luggage and more knobby tyres? I cannot answer to that, but I have my doubts that with street capable tyres the answer isn't that clear. Riding real off-road you need real off-road tyres.

CB500X seems to be quite new bike and out of my budjet. Instead of that I'm thinking of either 650cc single (XT660, Aprilia/BMW 650) or 600cc Transalp. TA is heavy but would have a twin engine which I do like.

Does anybody have an opinion is there difference between 650cc single and 600cc twin (TA) when riding technical parts like crossing rivers or rocky trails? Is the single more easy to stall in very slow speed (low revs)?

Hi Snufkin - generally speaking, a twin-cylinder adventure bike is going to be a little larger and more heavy than the equivalent capacity single-cylinder 'trail' bike, as the twins are designed to cover larger on-road distances in greater comfort and with more luggage/a passenger in comparison.

That is not to say that on the right size twin-cylinder machine, you couldn't take it pretty much anywhere you could take the single cylinder trail bike - but like all these questions, it very much depends on the rider, not the machine in itself.

With regard to the proposed riding you suggest - travelling from northern Europe to Mediterranean countries and exploring 'of-road' a little more - if you are talking about exploring defined dirt-roads and trails, then most 'adventure' bikes on the right tyres are going to be just fine (personally I have done a lot of riding in both Spain and Portugal, and also Morocco for example)... It's only if you want to start riding more technical single-track trails (ie. more suited to lightweight enduro bikes) that you'll start to find the limitations of a larger bike - and as I mentioned above, you're unlikely to be doing that kind of riding with a full luggage load anyway... unless you're really proficient as an off-road, which means the question shouldn't really be an issue anyway?

As I say, I recommend the best thing to do is pick a bike that handles the majority of your riding/proposed trip most comfortably and efficiently, and simply ride around any practical/physical limitations if and when you are in terrain you experience is outside of it's ideal.

Hope that helps...

Jenny x