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1 May 2018
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I always wonder what type of trips people have when they say "My 1200cc is perfect for RTW travel".
Do they often, OR EVER, ride down small knarly tracks to camp next to jungle waterfalls. Do they ever stay at friendly local places where you can push your bike through their front door. Do they get their bikes onto small rafts and go island hopping. You see my point.
Maybe they do. But probably not. In my experience, it's the big bikes that are parked in sterile hotel carparks and it's the smaller bikes that are in all the fun 'off the beaten track' places.
If you discount weight, a 600cc enduro bike isn't really taller or wider than the average 250 enduro but easier to adjust for comfort.. But a 1200cc GS is a monster in comparison to a 600cc enduro.
The big bike Vs small bike debate is as silly as the hard pannier Vs soft debate. There is no answer. There are too many variables.
__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
Last edited by *Touring Ted*; 1 May 2018 at 10:48.
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1 May 2018
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Registered Users
HUBB regular
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: London
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
The big bike Vs small bike debate is as silly as the hard pannier Vs soft debate. There is no answer. There are too many variables.
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This is probably the best answer (: I have noticed a lot of the liter and above camp are two up or at least very heavy packers. Totally different needs from someone like me whose total bodyweight + luggage is < 100kg.
The primary variables seem to be:
- total weight being carried (need a bigger bike)
- need for flexibility on the road (need a smaller bike that you can jam into a guesthouse living room, pick up easily if dropped, park anywhere, manhandle around, etc)
- desire/need for serious offroad (need a more dirt oriented bike)
- need for comfort (need a more road oriented bike)
- need for speed  (need a bigger or more road oriented bike)
- budget (need a smaller bike)
- rider skill/preference/everything else
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1 May 2018
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Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lutterworth,Midlands, UK
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to answer the original question.
Yes I have wished for a bigger more powerful bike but its a bit like how I travel on foot, camp etc over the years I have realised you can take less carry a lighter load and have a more enjoyable time because of it.
I think the older 600 cc trail bikes offered nice flat seats that you could shift your weight and sitting postion on easily and in many ways these bikes were ideal but then engines grew and bikes got wider and heavier with more gadgets. It would seem unless you want to travel on a nibble enduro weapon then the bikes that still offer a good size/weight tend to be the smaller 250/300 trail bike class.
I think there have been more occasions when on a bigger bike I have wished for smaller/lighter than the other way round 
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1 May 2018
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Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Honduras
Posts: 175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
I always wonder what type of trips people have when they say "My 1200cc is perfect for RTW travel".
Do they often, OR EVER, ride down small knarly tracks to camp next to jungle waterfalls. Do they ever stay at friendly local places where you can push your bike through their front door. Do they get their bikes onto small rafts and go island hopping. You see my point.
Maybe they do. But probably not. In my experience, it's the big bikes that are parked in sterile hotel carparks and it's the smaller bikes that are in all the fun 'off the beaten track' places.
If you discount weight, a 600cc enduro bike isn't really taller or wider than the average 250 enduro but easier to adjust for comfort.. But a 1200cc GS is a monster in comparison to a 600cc enduro.
The big bike Vs small bike debate is as silly as the hard pannier Vs soft debate. There is no answer. There are too many variables.
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Agreed here, in both the accessibility of a smaller bike and the hard can soft pannier debate. But a lot of people don’t have the budget or time to go island hopping with their bikes or explore into the abyss. Those kinds of trips aren’t available to everyone.
It really comes down to how someone is traveling: time limits, trip goals, etc.
Some people want to do Alaska to Ushuaia in a few months or around the world in a year. With that kind of pace (either due to time limits, budget limits or goals) the trip becomes largely about mileage.
For me, comfort is a primary concern, but I wouldn’t find it on a GS. Too expensive for parts and it’s much bigger than I want in a bike. Still, everyone has their personal preference.
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1 May 2018
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you think R1200GS is big? not so much, look at the Multistrada 1200 Enduro...
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1 May 2018
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Registered Users
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Honduras
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tremens
you think R1200GS is big? not so much, look at the Multistrada 1200 Enduro...
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From the photos it looks massive.
As said earlier, a trip is really what you make of it. A friend of mine did multiple years doing Latin America in legs. He would return to France every 6-8 months or so for about month to manage his business. On his Honda NC700X he would spend about a month in each country, traveling slow and really getting to know a place. There is a big difference between visiting a place and living in a country for a month. So, for him, the fuel efficient and comfortable Honda was his ideal travel bike.
Sure, he was on a “bigger” bike and maybe he couldn’t head deep into the mountains, but I would argue that his experience wasn’t any less genuine that another’s who is on a small dual sport and can get to those far corners.
As per the op’s question, there are simple comforts that bigger (medium sized bikes) offer that the small bikes can’t. For my style of travel, I don’t see the advantage of riding a small thumper.
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1 May 2018
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Registered Users
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirtyOne
From the photos it looks massive.
As said earlier, a trip is really what you make of it. A friend of mine did multiple years doing Latin America in legs. He would return to France every 6-8 months or so for about month to manage his business. On his Honda NC700X he would spend about a month in each country, traveling slow and really getting to know a place. There is a big difference between visiting a place and living in a country for a month. So, for him, the fuel efficient and comfortable Honda was his ideal travel bike.
Sure, he was on a “bigger” bike and maybe he couldn’t head deep into the mountains, but I would argue that his experience wasn’t any less genuine that another’s who is on a small dual sport and can get to those far corners.
As per the op’s question, there are simple comforts that bigger (medium sized bikes) offer that the small bikes can’t. For my style of travel, I don’t see the advantage of riding a small thumper.
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exactly, and don't underestimate bike like nc750x. Very good torquey engine and can off-road as well using little fuel. As for the R1200GS it has almost same wheel base ans xt660z, what makes it "big" is wide boxer engine which is a pain in tight trails. Other then that very capable off-road as well, until it breaks 
p.s.
BTW I took my ktm 500 exc to mx track today, but had to ride 30 minutes on highway to get there, damn what a pain...
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1 May 2018
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R.I.P.
Veteran HUBBer
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: california
Posts: 3,824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
I always wonder what type of trips people have when they say "My 1200cc is perfect for RTW travel".
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I was hoping you'd be getting into the "lack of reliability" issues with many
BMW's ... specifically the R1200GS's. Lots of documentation and feedback from experienced mechanics like you! Sure, some do OK ... but not all! It's big hit when things go Pear Shaped. Smaller bike? Not so much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
If you discount weight, a 600cc enduro bike isn't really taller or wider than the average 250 enduro but easier to adjust for comfort.. But a 1200cc GS is a monster in comparison to a 600cc enduro.
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Even the weight (250's vs. 650's) is not all that massive on some bikes. CRF Rally, WR250R, KLX250's ... none are featherweights ... and most only about 40 lbs.(18 kg) to 50lbs (23 kg.) lighter weight than my loaded up DR650, which is only 324 lbs. (147 kg.) DRY. Once you farkle up and load a 250, suddenly it becomes a fairly HEAVY BIKE!
The trade off going 650 dual sport is a flat wide seat (mentioned earlier) for all day comfort, a shield if you want it, with some torque to push through gusty head winds where the 250's may struggle. Also, luggage carrying ability much better on the 650 vs 250.
But a day riding deep sand may change your mind (that 5% the BMW guy was talking about!) The good news is my portly DR650 is actually amazingly good in deep sand! (which I loath!)
Two Up? Possible on a 650? IMO, if going two up I'd go with a twin: GS, Capo, Vstrom, or any sports tourer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
The big bike Vs small bike debate is as silly as the hard pannier Vs soft debate. There is no answer. There are too many variables.
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Yea, but provides lots of anecdotes for those trying to decide which way to go.
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2 May 2018
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Banned
Veteran HUBBer
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blauereiter
I always hear that no one ever wishes that they would have brought a larger/heavier bike once on a RTW/long distance journey.
But has anyone actually taken a small bike and wished they'd gone bigger?
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No. No regret. I went around Africa on a big 600 Honda for 700 Euro. It was nice and I would do it again as there are no shops and parts available along the westcoast anyway http://afrikamotorrad.eu/?report=en_westkueste
Then i bought a small 125cc bike to ride 28.000 km around South America and save shipping costs. Best choice ever. Riding the same bike as the locals you dont look and will be treeted as money on legs + all parts for the bike are available easy if needet: http://motorradtouren-suedamerika.de...en_suedamerika
In Asia and India we rendet many scooters for just 4 Dollars per day insted of shiping and importing exotic bikes around the globe. We loved them: http://schoene-motorradreisen.de/?re...ailand_bangkok
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
I always wonder what type of trips people have when they say "My 1200cc is perfect for RTW travel".
Maybe they do. But probably not. In my experience, it's the big bikes that are parked in sterile hotel carparks and it's the smaller bikes that are in all the fun 'off the beaten track' places.
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So true. 1200 GS are perfect for posing with big money at starbucks but Scooters are the best bike for offroading and cheap so you can spend your live riding and dont have to waste your lifetime in an office to pay for the rates of a BMW: https://www.facebook.com/Ronny.Famil...3343849059979/
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2 May 2018
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Banned
Veteran HUBBer
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
I was hoping you'd be getting into the "lack of reliability" issues with many
BMW's ... specifically the R1200GS's. Lots of documentation and feedback from experienced mechanics like you! Sure, some do OK ... but not all! It's big hit when things go Pear Shaped. Smaller bike? Not so much.
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True they never succeedet in any of the official german long term magazine tests: Google Translate Google Translate and even a third one Google Translate so i would call them the worst for RTW. Almost 50% of all BMW models fail, while Honda and Yamaha did not have any engine failure during a test withing the last 10 years http://www.motorradonline.de/dauerte...264182?seite=3
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
I always wonder what type of trips people have when they say "My 1200cc is perfect for RTW travel".
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Tarmac, Hotel, Tarmac, Hotel? Cant be real offroading visiting the locals in the jungle and probably never compared to any other bike...
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2 May 2018
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ta-rider
Tarmac, Hotel, Tarmac, Hotel? Cant be real offroading visiting the locals in the jungle and probably never compared to any other bike...
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dude, stop spreading nonsense. Just because you cannot handle or afford big bikes off-road doesn't mean other can't. Matter of personal preference and quest for going cheap everywhere is not everybody cup of tea. Ironically there are much more reports/movies of people traveling and exploring gnarly terrains on big adventure bikes then on scooters or 125cc bikes. In fact I haven't seen any. Just because you own small bike doesn't mean automatically you have skills required. It's not the bike, it's the rider. 
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2 May 2018
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Registered Users
HUBB regular
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: London
Posts: 85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tremens
Ironically there are much more reports/movies of people traveling and exploring gnarly terrains on big adventure bikes then on scooters or 125cc bikes. In fact I haven't seen any.
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Except for the millions of locals who do it every single day? Some of the worst roads I've been on I'm still surrounded by people on 125 scooters with their mothers riding sidesaddle behind.
Or if you're only counting westerners there's Ed Marsh and Nathan Millward, or all the people who have taken their vespas to extreme places.
Are you likely to see ultra-polished youtube series about them? No, cause the guys travelling on small and cheap bikes probably don't own the drones and professional cameras and have the sponsorships that the guys on big bikes do, so it's a poor measure.
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2 May 2018
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R.I.P.
Veteran HUBBer
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: california
Posts: 3,824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsinclai
Except for the millions of locals who do it every single day? Some of the worst roads I've been on I'm still surrounded by people on 125 scooters with their mothers riding sidesaddle behind.
Or if you're only counting westerners there's Ed Marsh and Nathan Millward, or all the people who have taken their vespas to extreme places.
Are you likely to see ultra-polished youtube series about them? No, cause the guys travelling on small and cheap bikes probably don't own the drones and professional cameras and have the sponsorships that the guys on big bikes do, so it's a poor measure.
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Good post and DEAD ON! 
Tremens, I get what you're saying but you have to admit the above rings true. I've mentioned how two girls riding a 100cc Scooter passed me in mud in N. Thailand! Granted, I'm NOT a good mud rider and they do it EVERYDAY ... but still, this sort of thing is common, they get every where on little bikes and scooters. Been there, seen it.
Also, as mentioned, plenty running RTW on small bikes ... they just don't get big commercial sponsorship because there is little MONEY in it to sell new, expensive bikes or high end gear.
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3 May 2018
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
Tremens, I get what you're saying but you have to admit the above rings true. I've mentioned how two girls riding a 100cc Scooter passed me in mud in N. Thailand! Granted, I'm NOT a good mud rider and they do it EVERYDAY ... but still, this sort of thing is common, they get every where on little bikes and scooters. Been there, seen it.
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except that's not the point, besides bad, muddy road whatever it is it's still a road not a gnarly off-road, desert, river crossing etc. Don't matter anyway, point is not to put all big, expensive bike riders in one basket as a coffee shop, posers. It takes a lot of guts and skills to travel on such big machines. 125cc bike you can take like bicycle over your shoulder and walk over any obstacles, what accomplishment is that? 
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2 May 2018
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Contributing Member
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Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Posts: 812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tremens
Ironically there are much more reports/movies of people traveling and exploring gnarly terrains on big adventure bikes then on scooters or 125cc bikes. In fact I haven't seen any.
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Simon Gandolfi is the first example I can think of; look him up on Amazon. He's written several books.
I've read dozens and dozens of trip reports here and on ADVrider about riders touring on small bikes. If it doesn't interest you, no worries, but I don't see why it's such a negative for you. Different strokes for different folks.
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