So its seems Moto Morini has entered the 450 cc adv-bike class.

Twin cylinder, dry weight of 190 kilograms, 21/18 wheels, 18,5 liter petrol tank etc etc. It certainly got the look! It will be available in September.

https://motomorini.eu/model/alltrhike/

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Weight wise, it's 15kg heavier than the CF Moto 450MT.

175kg vs 190kg dry weight.

Well known fact that the chinese arent exactly 100 % to be trusted, is it? These guys have actually weighed the CFMoto 450 and found that it is 207,5 kilos wet weight….
https://youtu.be/c1qoyvnrupQ?si=56OPbDxBkc4H5qWK

But then again Moto Morini are also probably made in China and by such they dont neccesarily have an accurate perception of this and that… and such as dry or wet weight of a motorbike.

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Genuine question: With the exception of Kove, why are all these "new" Chinese and Indian built 400/450cc bikes so effin' heavy? Japanese and Austrian bikes in the same market niche built 20 or 30 years ago (and some still being sold new in North America today) weighed 50kg (a third) less...

Why do people buy this cast iron substandard tat?

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Thats a very good question actually! Now - the Honda CB500X/NX500 is also around 200 kilos wet weight, and the Kawasaki Klr650 EFI is 220 or thereabouts? The Tenere 660 ABS that I rode around the world was 215 kilos wet (https://www.autoevolution.com/moto/y...-abs-2012.html) so I am not so sure that todays japanese bikes are very much lighter than chinese and indian made bikes.
The KTMs are lighter though, but then again they are high strung and quite expensive machines (with some nasty top end issues….)

Todays bikes are definetively heavier than bikes 30-40 years ago. I guess watercooled engines weighs more than aircooled ones, ABS units weighs a couple of kilos, two brake disc in front and one rear weighs more than one small in front and an old school rear brake etc etc. It still dont explain all the weight gain….?

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All older single cylinder KTMs like in the exc range weigh less than than 150kg, some by a lot. When not raced and treated right they do many 10s of thousands of Kms. Check out the relevant Advrider reports from e.g. Aaron Steinman and RTWpaul on their exc500s

Japanese weighing around 150kg or less:
*Suzuki Dr 350 and DRZ (water cooled)
*Honda xr 250, 400, 650l. The xr650r is water cooled
*Yamaha wr 250 and 450 (water cooled). And xt.
*Even the gen1 klr650 only weighed 153kg, allegedly, according to a quick Google search.

These also all had disc brakes.

Who, when "adventure" riding, needs an abs unit?

My 37 year old vtwin made in Japan (not Italy) 600cc Transalp only weighs in at 175kg

What's with the extra 50kg sea anchor, wrought iron?

I rode an Indian "Yezdi Adventure" (from the same outfit that are now re-selling the BSA into Europe) for quite a few 1000km in India in early 2024: It even had an extra iron cover bolted around the whole 335cc engine to make the motor look physically bigger than it's poxy 3rd of a litre water cooled appearance Over 200kg of underpowered, poor performing garbage. Definitely one to avoid...

Sh!t quality materials (from the industrial revolution of the 1800s) = cheaper cost = lower price and built in 2nd/3rd world sweatshops, but still means higher profit margins for the manufacturers, especially if the no nothing newbies or born again bikers take their contraptions to 100 euro/USD/gb£ a labour hour workshops.

For information: OEM Honda crf250 made in Thailand parts cost a quarter of the price in Thailand than in Europe from a Honda dealer, even including shipping and taxes if imported into Europe yourself.

I'll stick to older Japanese bikes. The build quality was phenomenal. The average age of my fleet is about 28 years. 4 Hondas and a Suzuki. 4 water cooled and one air cooled. All with carburettors.

I recently test rode a Kove 450 rally replica bike. 32 litres of petrol capacity and 145kg. What's not to like?...

...The dismal throttle response: I went from a very potential customer to a you must be effin kiddin in 20 minutes. Maybe the efi can be programmed?!

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True enough @snakeboy.

The dry weights provided by CF Moto & Moto Morini needs to be fact checked & verified independently.

ABS are mandatory on all EU bikes - thats why they mount in such devices. Wether you or me wants it or not doesnt mean a thing - its a mandatory thing nowadays.

I had a 600 Transalp (1997 model if I remember right?) and it weighed more than 200 kilos - again if I remember correctly?
Yep - confirmed, it weighed in at 215 kilos. So I think you have you put your Transalp on a scale again? Or maybe you have done something really radical with it?

Kove has made some really lightweigth bikes! I wonder how well they will run in the long time run.

The 790/890 KTMs have massive cam and topend problems. Its a well known fact - anybody with a tad of motorbike interest must know by know…

Well 250-300-350-400 cc dirtbikes weighs a lot less than these socalled modern ADV bikes. It goes without explaining. But I agree that most modern bikes despite all the equipement - come in at way too much weight….

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1988 Transalp weight: 175kg dry as per https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/mo..._xl600v_88.htm. I pointed out in my previous post that my 37 year old (1988) Transalp was made in Japan (black coloured engine) as opposed to Italy (silver coloured engine, e.g. the 1997 model)

The discussion in this post is about 400/450cc bikes that seem to be churned out by Chinese and Indian factories. So mentioning alleged 790/890 size KTM problems isn't relevant By reading this post carefully you would have known this (by now )

Re ABS. I'll accept your assertion that it's the law today. Do you know how dangerous when riding off pavement ("Adventure Riding") it is when you as the rider don't have full control what your brakes are going to do? Safe travels to the ABS brigade, if you didn't/can't turn it off, off pavement...

The 250 to 450 "dirtbikes" as you call them, have as much a right to be called "Adventure bikes" as any other 250 to 1300cc overweight junket built recently. One example: The drz400s in my garage right now went 50000km around the world with it's previous owner... Check/search the Advrider ride report forum for *many* similar examples. How many crf250/300 bikes are on big "adventurous" trips today? Friends of mine "only" use them for local dirt trail riding, rather than further afield.

Why doesn't it require explaining? 25 years ago superbly engineered bikes, versus today's poor quality heavy iron, sea anchor material sourced in the same country as the cheap labour assembling it, that'll be melted down again into it's base metals inside 10 years.

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It is now almost blasphemy to trash-talk a Chinese adventure bike.

Because 'Terry the toaster Tosser from Torquey' on YouTube bought one, went to get an ice-cream and verified that it's "Just as good as a Honda"

I'd still rather throw down £5000 for a five year Jap bike than £5000 for a box fresh Shanghai Skidmaster 450 or whatever they call it until next year.

You can almost get a V-stroke 800DE for £5000 now. The difference in engineering and refinement are chalk and cheese.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

You're a poet and you didn't even know it Every plonker on HU Faecesbook who uses that medium to "promote" their U-tube offerings, gets an instant block from me, so I now rarely see new Terry's totally turd telly tubby (in a whale foresk!n ) be-tw@tsuited touring tourism vids.

People used to have a hissyfit when you told them their German/Austrian Heavy Eurobombers were overrated piles of poo. Now you say it's Chinese Industrial Revolution-technology heavy metal... Must keep an eye out for that. Or not...

I just ride my old Jap dudu in lots of interesting places on this planet, listening to political, true crime and footy podcasts while doing so. In the evening after a day's ride beyond Starbucks I talk to locals (if they're pleasant), or zone them out (bluetooth headphones are great when some random matie is trying to sell me some rug, or such). I need to learn the French for "no fumo español" in preparation for my upcoming trans-Af re-jolly on the 37 year old 175 kg Translap It's going one way... I need the space in my garage

PS. The 2006 DRZ I mentioned above is the £900 nail you worked on all those years ago in (the?) Wirral... I spent some $$$ on a new (used, but not abused) eBay carby and the bike runs just fine now. Now it's done 50k plus miles (The speedo/ odo drive "fell off", so I'm not exactly sure ) and is getting a full engine rebuild here in Womble-istan, in preparation for Iraq/ Iran (if open) to Afghanistan and back to Mongolia ride in '26 or early '27. Bulgarians (and Greeks who sell the parts...) are superb at actually fixing/ making do and mending stuff. And at a fraction of north west European prices.

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Best of the best Suzuki DR 350 year 98/99 130 kilo.
the only machine in this league I would say is the Beta Alp 4.0. they quit making them in 2018. only problem small gas tank and no options for a larger aftermarket but a 20 litre could probably be retrofitted