Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Which Bike?
Which Bike? Comments and Questions on what is the best bike for YOU, for YOUR trip. Note that we believe that ANY bike will do, so please remember that it's all down to PERSONAL OPINION. Technical Questions for all brands go in their own forum.
Photo by Marc Gibaud, Clouds on Tres Cerros and Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia

25 years of HU Events


Destination ANYWHERE...
Adventure EVERYWHERE!




Photo by Marc Gibaud,
Clouds on Tres Cerros and
Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia



Like Tree25Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 9 Jun 2013
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 65
I'm not sure why the dealer in cork told you the control unit would come programmed, i have been working for bmw for 4 years and the only way to programme a control unit to your bike is to have the bike actually there to do it. When you programme control units the diagnosic machine 'stamps' your vin into it aswell as your vehicle order (all relevant optional extras that your bike has fitted) all of this info is taken off of your bike at the time of programming and put onto the new control unit. You cannot put a used control unit onto any other bike for these reasons as it will cause conflicts within the bike so if you want to sell it privately the only person you can actually sell it to is the owner of the bike that the control unit is programmed to. BMW will not give you a refund for any control unit you order. If you would have let the dealer that was doing the diagnostics on the bike order the control unit and they misdiagnosed then the cost would be with them but as you went ahead and ordered it yourself, although they told you that was the problem, personally i think the cost should lie with you.
Admittedly the delaer should have diagnosed the problem correctly the first time but a broken wire can be sometimes hard to find, if it is literally just split then it could easily just sit together giving the appearance of a connected wire and any elemants could break the circuit like heating the bike up could adapt the loom just enough to break the circuit or turning the handlebars to on side.
OBD2 is not used on bikes. BMW use their own diagnosis bus which connects to thier and after market diagnosis systems. The system is far from perfect and does throw out the occasional control unit failed diagnosis, and it is far from just plugging it in and it will tell you what is wong with the bike, you actually have to do all measurements manually with a multimeter and then enter them onto the system for it to decide what is wrong. All it does is give you a guided diagnosis, a step by step guide of what wires could be the cause of the issue.
The can bus system contains only 2 wires, a signal and a confirmation, which basically allow the control units to recieve signals for switches, lights, sensors etc without having to run signal wires to each control unit that needs that signal e.g the wheel speed signal is sent to the abs unit only then the instrument cluster gets the speed signal from the abs unit though the can bus lines. It is actually very simple when you break it down.

Just as a final note, although you have found the problem now, i would have said that your problem was the wiring. Your bike is too late a model to be fitted with the faulty ews ariels, which all were replaced under recall anyway. Im guessing that the break probably would have been around your headstock, either at the bend in the wire or where it is cable tied to the frame, i have not had one break that hasnt been in either of those positions.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 9 Jun 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonylester View Post
I'm not sure why the dealer in cork told you the control unit would come programmed, i have been working for bmw for 4 years and the only way to programme a control unit to your bike is to have the bike actually there to do it.
This makes much more sense than the concept in the OP of pre-programming an electronic component remotely.
e.g. once an external hard disc is attached to, say, a digital television (and formatted for recording purposes) then that drive cannot be used subsequently in, say, a computer.

On the basis that the new unit has never been fitted to the sickly bike - never been out of the packaging apparently - then the Irish supplier may be in a position to take it back into their stock OR the Peruvian dealer could "make an offer" for it (if I was inclined toward conspiracy theories, I might think that they wanted to snag one when the sick bike turned up at their premises - but I don't do conspiracy theories).
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 9 Jun 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: SW France
Posts: 304
I get the impression from the OP that the Cork dealer would only supply the control unit on the understanding that it was non-refundable. Whether or not he did any programming is only important if the current owner wants to try and sell it privately.

The way in which it broke down is also an important factor in determining what has actually caused the bike to stop (or not start in this case). If it was as the OP said one minute the bike was working 100%, he then stopped and a few minutes later tried to start the bike and it was completely dead then he was probably right to think that it was an electronic failure. In my experience broken wires initially cause intermittent faults leading eventually to complete failure but the problem with electronic failures is that they can just occur for no good reason (although heat is usually the cause).

If this sort of fault occurred on my low tech bike I would have tried 'hotwiring' the starter motor and ignition circuits depending on the exact symptoms. I'm not sure how much the CANBUS technology affects things but, for example, if the starter isn't turning I would disconnect the existing wiring and jump it directly from the battery - if it turns then it points the finger at the switch and numerous interlocks (neutral switch, sidestand switch etc.). OK I realise I'm probably over simplifying things as I have very little experience of such complex machines but it's interesting to note that technology hasn't overcome the problem of fatigue breaks in the wiring loom at the headstock! I would have thought that some sort of wireless connection could be used.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 9 Jun 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 4,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnon View Post
The way in which it broke down is also an important factor in determining what has actually caused the bike to stop (or not start in this case). If it was as the OP said one minute the bike was working 100%, he then stopped and a few minutes later tried to start the bike and it was completely dead then he was probably right to think that it was an electronic failure. In my experience broken wires initially cause intermittent faults leading eventually to complete failure but the problem with electronic failures is that they can just occur for no good reason (although heat is usually the cause).

If this sort of fault occurred on my low tech bike I would have tried 'hotwiring' the starter motor and ignition circuits depending on the exact symptoms. I'm not sure how much the CANBUS technology affects things but, for example, if the starter isn't turning I would disconnect the existing wiring and jump it directly from the battery - if it turns then it points the finger at the switch and numerous interlocks (neutral switch, sidestand switch etc.). OK I realise I'm probably over simplifying things as I have very little experience of such complex machines but it's interesting to note that technology hasn't overcome the problem of fatigue breaks in the wiring loom at the headstock! I would have thought that some sort of wireless connection could be used.
CANBUS has been around for nearly 30 years with 4 wheelers and it is here to stay:-
What is CAN Bus?
According to that website --
1. One advantage is the reduction in the amount of wiring used in the loom - for the BMW car it saved 50 Kg of weight.
2. Vehicle construction regulations standardise on the implementation of CANBUS technology; I have come across this theme in other discussion, whereby the diagnostic tools are supposed to be interchangeable.

Wiki explains a lot more about how signals are transmitted via the CANBUS, but the old ways of diagnosing faults have to be modified to take into account that information flows as signals/impulses and not as a constant flow of current

"I get the impression from the OP that the Cork dealer would only supply the control unit on the understanding that it was non-refundable. Whether or not he did any programming is only important if the current owner wants to try and sell it privately."
In part, this is why I mentioned that becoming involved in the garage internal procedures for procurement of spare parts is not a great idea, even if the customer considers that they are under time pressures; further, doing it via a personal friend/acquaintance simply complicates the relationship aspects.
__________________
Dave
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 9 Jun 2013
colebatch's Avatar
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: London / Moscow
Posts: 1,913
I think you also have to be realistic / fatalistic about any BMW Motorrad facilities outside of the developed world.

Many of them do not have up to date diagnostic kit.

Once I spoke to the official dealer / importer in Kazakhstan who said their diagnostic kit cant help with anything more recent than 1999.

Generally speaking, the sales of BMW motorcycles outside the western world is tiny (in contrast, sales of BMW cars in Peru or Mongolia or wherever, is actually significant). Dealers are often the local car importing franchise of BMW who has been compelled by Munich to have a token Motorrad sales and service facility too, as a condition of getting the BMW Car franchise for that country. In reality, their interest in selling or servicing the motorcycles is near zero. Their investment in equipment and staff training is also near zero. Again using Kazakhstan as an example, there are NO BMW owners in Kazakhstan that I know that go to the dealer for service. All say they are useless, and get the bikes serviced by local passionate motorcycle mechanics. The dealer there exists only to import and sell new bikes. Beyond that, they have no real function.

The local importers and dealers are only interested in the BMW car business. Thats where the money is.

Expecting the motorrad section to be any use at all, to have top draw bike mechanics, to have up to date diagnostic equipment or even carry any spare parts in stock is totally not realistic.

Last edited by colebatch; 10 Jun 2013 at 06:19.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 9 Jun 2013
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by colebatch View Post
I think you also have to be realistic / fatalistic about any BMW Motorrad facilities outside of the developed world.

Many of them do not have up to date disagnostic kit.

Once I spoke to the official dealer / importer in Kazakhstan who said their diagnostic kit cant help with anything more recent than 1999.
The latest diagnosis machine, MOSS, Costs over £4000 to dealers and has to be connected to germany through the internet to use it, it's easy to see why far away dealers will not fork out for the latest equipment if they rarely see any need for it
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 9 Jun 2013
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wessex, UK
Posts: 2,136
Whilst we are busy slating BMW R1200GS does anybody know the story behind this photo I have just seen on Facebook and what did this chap's dealer say to him?

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
canbus bmw


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buying Used Bike in Santiago Chile lachy South America 187 5 Dec 2023 13:53
Buying and registering a motorcycle in Chile timyarb Trip Paperwork 16 2 Jan 2018 18:55
Buying a new BMW F700GS in Cape Town, Carnet advice? Ed the traveler Trip Paperwork 0 9 Oct 2012 08:55
Information wanted from experienced bikers in South America joentje100 South America 35 1 Jan 2010 03:00

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

25 years of HU Events
Be sure to join us for this huge milestone!

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

Virginia: April 24-27
Queensland is back! May 2-5
Germany Summer: May 29-June 1
Ecuador June 13-15
Bulgaria Mini: June 27-29
CanWest: July 10-13
Switzerland: Aug 14-17
Romania: Aug 22-24
Austria: Sept. 11-14
California: September 18-21
France: September 19-21
New York: October 9-12 NEW!
Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2

2026 Confirmed Dates:
(get your holidays booked!)

Virginia: April 23-26
Queensland: May 1-4
CanWest: July 9-12

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes.
(ONLY US RESIDENTS and currently has a limit of 60 days.)

Ripcord Evacuation Insurance is available for ALL nationalities.


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Every book a diary
Every chapter a day
Every day a journey
Refreshingly honest and compelling tales: the hights and lows of a life on the road. Solo, unsupported, budget journeys of discovery.
Authentic, engaging and evocative travel memoirs, overland, around the world and through life.
All 8 books available from the author or as eBooks and audio books



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:01.