So, the number of bikes you see in your neighbourhood, tells you about its reliability then? There are lots of areas, where the Vstrom is very popular, too. Mostly the 650-version. I dont think anyone "avoids" it because of reliability, because it simply has not been an issue with this bike.

With the R1200GS, general reliability has been an issue, and no matter how many they´ve sold, and how well they´ve taken care of their warranty claims, it´s still had an awful lot of reports about various problems, several of which will at the very least mean a trip-stopper. Reported problems with Vstroms have been small in nature compared to these.

I´ve nothing against BMW. In fact I like the 1200GS, its a great bike to ride. But you keep hearing this very similar story from several sources, the net, other motorists, the magazines, over several years, and I dont think its all just "village gossip" anymore. BMW built a machine, that is a bit too full of advanced (=complicated, relatively untested) technology to work well on a bike, thats supposed to be capable of going far away from their dealer network, still without a worry.

If you had a statistic about, say, 1000 pieces of GS1200´s sold, and the same number of Vstroms sold, and their respective number of warranty claims over the same period of time, I think you would get a very clear picture of this.

Is that really so hard to admit?

That only holds water if you look at "like for like" location, usage and mlieage, too.
Taking that into account, I think any clear trend may not be so clear after all.

Problem is, as previously pointed out, that anecdotes are not proof.

People always bitch when things go wrong, but do not bother if things run as planned.

You will always find loads more "my new Suzuki/my new BMW is broken" threads than "my new Suzuki/my new BMW is running perfectly well, I just want to let everyone know its doing what I expected a new bike to do" threads.

Forums may highlight faults that arise more often than others, but give no indication of the ratio in relation to bikes that are running fine. Neither does it shed any light on chosen usage or mileage.

In the UK the average annual biking miles are about 3000/year if not less as biking becomes more of a luxury pastime than a purely means of transport (we are a dying breed!).
The most common bikes are sports bikes. Sports bikes are mostly Japanese. With that sort of mileage, usually over the summer sundays, are they likely to go drastically wrong over the first two years that warranty applies? Probably not. The most popular BMW in the range has been the GS for many years, IIRR. Typically, BMs do tend to see more miles and in all weathers.

So if we hypothesise that reliability is identical, you are still likely to see more warranty claims on the BM than the Japanese bikes in those first two years: mileage and usage.... etc. This is not supposed to be a water-tight scientific explanation, but it puts forum quotes and warranty figures a little more in perspective I think.

For the record, as previously stated, I like Japanese bikes as much as I do the BMs.

Although predominantly a Honda rider, my two all-time favourite bikes that I have personally owned and extensively ridden were a BM and a Suzuki (the V-strom engine in its original form: the TL1000s).

What I dislike is brand bashing without reliable back-up, especially when that bashing is even extended to owners of the brand and the country they live in.

What the heck does "who buys a bike" have to do with production quality?!?
And yet such comments have been made in an arguement allegedly about falling production standards!!

True or not, the "BMWs are crap" line has started to sound far too much like a personal vendetta than "10 years" of close scrutiny and analysis, IMO...

I must say, for that reason, I am far more interested i what the likes of you, Pecha, and some others ,who seem to have a more reasoned approach to the debate, have to say...

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Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

This is so funny, i clicked on this thread as i have the 650GS, clicked straight to the last page and its not about the bike at all, its a bitching competition... what happenned to the original thread subject lol...

This thread was pretty good for the first couple pages, nice, friendly exchange of opinions and experience. It was OK right up to Post #28 when
Margus came barging in with his very defensive posture and calling any non BMW zealots a liar.

So read the first couple pages ... some great comments that compares Japanese singles with BMW singles .... and quite respectful and civilized as well.

Patrick

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

"nice, friendly exchange of opinions", "quite respectful and civilized"?!?

I think it quite innappropriate for you, Mollydog, to level those sorts of criticisms considering your derogatory comments and jibes aimed at Margus' country and nationality (post number 55): something for which you have not had the decency to apologise.

Not to mention you pidgeon-holing anyone who has bought a BM as a rich wannabee with more money than sense:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...970#post201217

I think its bang out of order to have than sort of attitude toward people, let alone based on their choice of brand. What's next? Their nationality? oh sorry, you've already done that one.

Evidently, you feel this is perfectly acceptable behaviour....

__________________
Adventure: it's an experience, not a style!
(so ride what you like, but ride it somewhere new!)

Personal insults aside (and I dont think they fit this forum at all) I must say that several posts by Mollydog have been very useful for me, and in fact his well-informed opinions some time ago played a part in convincing me, that I can do a big trip on a Vstrom.

And I did (or we, that is, 2-up with my missus), from Europe to Australia, over 30.000 kilometres, with no worries worth even mentioning. The choice of the right bike was a big factor in succeeding in all this, and I did need a bit of convincing, that we can go with fuel injection, and something thats not a "real" offroad-bike. The opinion of an experienced rider, who has done similar trips on a similar bike, was of great value.

With this I do not mean to say he would be the only one here who knows his stuff, though.

Ok, enough said! It's about time for a break for this thread, people are getting a little too hot-headed about it.

A little less "personal opinion" and a little more - "it worked for me - or not" as at the beginning would have been useful, but it seems to have deteriorated entirely too much.

so, it's closed.

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Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
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Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com