An interesting and informative thread where Margus uses facts and statistics (rather than opinion) and Mollydog uses opinion (rather than facts).

M/D was accused of passing on "Village gossip" and actually this can be seen where he says that he knows some dealers who tell him secret stuff. Comments like "how quaint" about another person's views don't advance his argument at all, unfortunately.

Like Mollydog, I have no special knowledge of BMWs, but there are plenty around, which suggests a degree of engineering success? The thousands who buy BMWs aren't fools.

However, I can't say the same of V-Stroms, simply because I hardly ever see any. It seems that riders have voted with their feet, and passed them by. The thousands who avoid V-Stroms aren't fools either.

I would have liked M/D to argue against BMWs using facts, not stories. That's a much more convincing way to make a case, for or against. The pics M/Dog shows above are simply an example of pictorial gossip, proving nothing.

I was initially impressed by the claims for the VStrom engine,(it seemed very good) until I read this thread. The price is certainly attractive. But is it built down to a price? I don't know.

But I believe M/D mistakenly meant well, and he tried his very best, unsuccessfully, to make his point; but surely it's better to avoid stories/hearsay?