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Trip Paperwork Covers all documentation, carnets, customs and country requirements, how to deal with insurance etc.
Photo by Josephine Flohr, Elephant at Camp, Namibia

I haven't been everywhere...
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Photo by Josephine Flohr,
Elephant at Camp, Namibia



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  #91  
Old 22 Mar 2011
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Hi all
I am new to this site and I must admit I haven't read every single post in this thread. SO apologies if I repeat something.

But I had looked at it a few times before joining the HUBB and it seems that there is still no concrete solution as to how to leave the UK for more than 12 months "legally", without exporting the bike.

I myself am planing a round the world trip that will most likely take more than 12 months so the problem is looming.

So I just called the DVLA to see if they are aware of the problem, and yes they are. When I asked what they could do about it, they said that they are stuck and bound by the laws and regulations. So then they suggested that I contact my local MP in order that the subject be raised with the relevant people in govenment.

Might seem like it would get lost there "like a needle in the haystack" sort of thing. However, word has it that if enough people raise the same issue with their MP, eventually they have to listen.

So to all you UK people out there, email your MP (its really easy to do online, just google "find/email your local MP" and follow the links). We may not change the world instantly, but its worth a try

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  #92  
Old 20 May 2011
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Another solution?

Thought i'd run this crazy idea past you all as you seem pretty clued.

So, if non resident in the UK (<365 days in last 2 years), or UK resident but leaving for more than 6 months, you can purchase a vehicle from a "registered" dealer (used or new) DUTY FREE. The bike is given (new) or keeps (used) it's number plate, and you got six months to get out the EC (europe).

as you leave you got to send a slip to the dvla with details of export date etc, then your bike is officially no longer UK "registered". You do however still have the purchase papers, a copy of whatever the DVLA give you in the first place (called a vx403 but no idea what it looks like) the number plates and hopefully a carnet if the RAC will give you one (????). What other papers do you really need?

this may be a shot in the dark but VAT on a new bike is a lot of spends!

Not sure what my plans are with my bike at the end, maybe register in another country (and by that point the value of the bike will have dropped ajorly so import duties should be smaller)

Any feedback?

PJ
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  #93  
Old 26 Jun 2011
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Mind the Gap !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
The nearest to a legally perfect solution I have come up with was put to the test nearly a year and a half ago and seems to be working! A friend was taking her car out of the UK (and out of EU) for an extended period. She submitted Part 11 from page 3-4 of the V5C (all you need abroad is page 1-2) to DVLA with a covering letter stating the car was going to be abroad for an indeterminate period, travelling from country to country – never more than 6 months in each. She required the Registration to be kept current to comply with the Geneva Treaties, to which Britain had signed, and she would contact DVLA before returning to arrange an MOT (or Vehicle Inspecorate inspection of identity) and visit a local DVLA office. She never received a reply and went on her way.
A few months ago we reached the anniversary of her leaving UK. Being in UK at the time, I phoned the DVLA to enquire if they were expecting a SORN – their reply was “No, the vehicle is Exported [no mention of Permanently] and it should be re-registered at a local DVLA office, with a MOT certificate or Vehicle Inspectorate certificate immediately it returns to the UK”.

And no doubt someone else has been told you can’t do this…………!

As ever, I am open to correction.
Just a quick non-update -

-She still has her car in Russia.
-Nothing has been received at the UK address DVLA have for her.
-She plans to take the car back to UK within the next couple of months.

In the meantime I understand (separetly from LuckyLuke above) that DVLA finally admit to a gap in the legislation but refuse to suggest a way round it.
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  #94  
Old 28 Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony P View Post
I phoned the DVLA to enquire if they were expecting a SORN – their reply was “No, the vehicle is Exported [no mention of Permanently] and it should be re-registered at a local DVLA office, with a MOT certificate or Vehicle Inspectorate certificate immediately it returns to the UK”.
Interestingly, this talles with what I was told by DVLA when I was planning my own 1/2 RTW trip. They said to declare the vehicle exported and then re-import/re-register it when I got back. I went the SORN route instead to save the hassle of going to a DVLA office in person and doing all the paperwork. I also wonder whether, technically, a vehicle is still registered in the UK if DVLA's records show it as exported.

overlandcruiser.net
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  #95  
Old 19 Nov 2011
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I've read each post in this thread, I've dipped into it for the last 3 years to be honest in anticipation of a return to the UK.

I left the UK in May 2007 with my 4x4. I returned the tax disc for a refund once I left the EEA. Since that time the vehicle has been around Eurasia, out of the EEA. I've never registered the vehicle in another country, kept the car SORN'd in the UK.

So now, I have the joy of returning to the UK, compounded by the fact that 'my' government seems to deem my trip illegal.

Insurance-wise, it seems not to be possible to insure my car with a UK insurer as the car will be out of the UK at the start date of the policy. I have a green card purchased in Ukraine which covers all green-card member states (including the UK), except for Ukraine itself.

I'm going to book an MOT before disembarking in Dover Port, and I live just a couple of hours away.

My main worry is a run-in with the Orwellian surveillance organs of the regime. What are my best chances at escaping being recorded? I'll be driving at night, and avoiding motorways. Is this a wise move?? Any other tips? What are UK customs like? Are they likely to check car paperwork etc (the car still has UK plates). Or should I maybe use a 'local' set of plates (with my number, but in Pakistani format, used when driving through Afghanistan).

I really wish I was dealing with money-hungry Russian GAI-niks or mindless, indoctrinated Iranian militia than the 'computer says no' bureacracy of Britain.

Welcome back!!

Daniel
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  #96  
Old 19 Nov 2011
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Insurance.
Try Stuart Collins and Co European Motor Insurance and Annual Green Cards
They are specialists in this sort of thing. If you have difficulties, come back to me via PM. The owner is a personal friend and will try harder!

MOT.
The test station can be anywhere - not necessarily close to your home. Just ensure you are reasonably 'en route' in terms of road usage and time. You are allowed to stop for rest (home overnight?) on your way. After the test you are permited to return literally anywhere. If it has failed, you can later use the vehicle to take it to/from any pre-booked place of repair. All withour tax.

Ensure the test is pre-booked, have proof of entry to UK (loading pass etc) and just get on with your journey. Just as I did a few months ago with an untaxed (by a few days) car with a long expired MOT.

SORN.
As you will have read, the vehicle has to be in the UK to be declared SORN. DVLA now acknowledge there is an anomoly in the Law, but are not sympathetic - they prefer to apply the letter of the Law rather than the spirit and try to extort informal Penalty Charges to supplement their Budget.
This is a separate topic away from this forum. Sufficient to say that at present I am part of an action 'against' DVLA through the Parliamentary Commons Committees, which hopefully will lead to a change of attitude.

Off Topic
You, like me, presumably have grown to love the personal freedoms of Russia and its CIS neighbours. I only go back to over-regulated, over-watched, over-restricted, over-taxed, rip-off Britain to see my family, enjoy proper and my 'local' pub life from time to time.
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  #97  
Old 29 Nov 2011
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Thanks for the reply. Sums up my opinion. I was more asking how best to avoid cameras (A roads, motorway etc)

I would like to ask your opinion of one more thing... I know the car will fail an MOT, so I would waste about 60 quid just to get a fail certificate. Do you think a faxed confirmation of an MOT from a local garage will be enough to present to the DVLA if I get a letter asking why the car has been used? Or would I absolutely need a fail certificate? I could always say I got a puncture en route, was late and the car couldn't be tested that day, so drove home...

Daniel
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  #98  
Old 29 Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsprague View Post
Thanks for the reply. Sums up my opinion. I was more asking how best to avoid cameras (A roads, motorway etc)

I would like to ask your opinion of one more thing... I know the car will fail an MOT, so I would waste about 60 quid just to get a fail certificate. Do you think a faxed confirmation of an MOT from a local garage will be enough to present to the DVLA if I get a letter asking why the car has been used? Or would I absolutely need a fail certificate? I could always say I got a puncture en route, was late and the car couldn't be tested that day, so drove home...

Daniel
You've done well to read every previous post in this thread - I haven't, so this information may be here already.
For motorbikes, the UK MOT test system requires that the MOT testing station logs onto a computer site for a set period of time. My instinct is that it is the same for all other vehicles, but the point is that test stations have lost their credentials to carry out MOT tests for breaking such rules of the DVLA - in summary, even they are under the computer-based scrutiny of the beauracracy.
I would be a bit surprised then if you can get some kind of less-than-fully-official certificate to say that a test has been done, and the car failed. Even if you had some kind of paper certificate, I would also guess that it would be easy(ish) to check that via the logon records of the DVLA for test certs. that, no doubt, they will hold.
In the last 4-5 years, while you have been travelling, vehicle computer records have come together far more comprehensively and completely, such that you can have your MOT cert, road fund licence and ownership of the vehicle all cross-checked by those who have access to such things, such as those sat in a police car on the highway. That has also led to accusations (really!) of such information being sold on by those good souls who work inside the DVLA and can get to it.

You might surmise, that £60 for a genuine fail cert is good value?

If you could cross the UK border on Weds 30 Nov, it will probably be wide open while most of the UK goes on strike for the day So, no MOT paperwork checks on that day would be a strong possibility.

Great travel blog by the way.
And, yes, the people of Asia also have lots of rules, but they also have far more individual freedom than those in western countries in general, and the UK in particular.
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  #99  
Old 29 Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony P View Post


SORN.
As you will have read, the vehicle has to be in the UK to be declared SORN. DVLA now acknowledge there is an anomoly in the Law, but are not sympathetic - they prefer to apply the letter of the Law rather than the spirit and try to extort informal Penalty Charges to supplement their Budget.
This is a separate topic away from this forum. Sufficient to say that at present I am part of an action 'against' DVLA through the Parliamentary Commons Committees, which hopefully will lead to a change of attitude.

.
With the all-seeing eye of the computer-based system, it is not clear to me that there is any way for "it" to know that a vehicle is not in the country. This has been discussed elsewhere in the HUBB in relation to the masses of UK registered vehicles that are driving around, say, France, with out of date tax discs and no current MOT certificate.
Of course, a vehicle can be declared SORN by online means and I don't suppose that the DVLA check on where such a SORN logon is located, yet.
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  #100  
Old 29 Nov 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsprague View Post
I know the car will fail an MOT, so I would waste about 60 quid just to get a fail certificate. Do you think a faxed confirmation of an MOT from a local garage will be enough to present to the DVLA if I get a letter asking why the car has been used? Or would I absolutely need a fail certificate? I could always say I got a puncture en route, was late and the car couldn't be tested that day, so drove home...
I don't know if they follow up on 'no-shows' - not the garage, but the watchers at DVLA.
Sounds like a reasonable wheeze - but you never know these days. I would give it a go - but I am not averse to both risk and arguing with officialdom!
Maybe to keep in the good books of the garage, cancel the appointment once home but before the appointed time. You can't be the first to fail to keep an apppointment for whatever reason.

I don't think a fax is necessary - you can refer anyone to the test centre's appointment records. But I am of the strong opinion that MOT appointments are logged into the Vehicle Inspectorate's computor, to which Police, DVLA, Uncle Tom Cobbley and all have access.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkabout View Post
With the all-seeing eye of the computer-based system, it is not clear to me that there is any way for "it" to know that a vehicle is not in the country. This has been discussed elsewhere in the HUBB in relation to the masses of UK registered vehicles that are driving around, say, France, with out of date tax discs and no current MOT certificate.
Of course, a vehicle can be declared SORN by online means and I don't suppose that the DVLA check on where such a SORN logon is located, yet.
Sure, I don't see it a problem being out of UK.
It is the vehicle that must be in UK.
But if you are concerned, or it won't accept it, you can always defeat IP location identifiers and tracing by using "ExPat Shield" or others. I use this to watch for various things. They say ( ) you can use this to see live BBC TV on-line in Russia, which is otherwise "unavailable in your area" (due to regional or rights restrictions). Every time you log on, it assignes a UK (or non territorial) IP address to your PC, so your true IP/location will not be revealed, so no restriction!

The point is that in SORN you are declaring the vehicle is still in UK, but not on a road maintained at public expense.
Apart from the consequences of making a false declaration and all that follows, you could hardly maintain it was SORN (therefore had been in UK) if you are seen by ANPR readers in the arrivals area of Dover docks or the Tunnel terminal - where they certainly exist and are used, at least to assist security and booking information. I would not put it past 'them' to be linked in.

But as above and earlier in the thread, I would be prepared to argue the points in any Court if needbe, if caught in DVLA's Catch 22 gap in the rules they enforce and they try to seek settlement penalties for their own coffers.

Last edited by Tony P; 29 Nov 2011 at 22:20. Reason: Forgot something. It's age!
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  #101  
Old 15 Dec 2011
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Wink

Govt are making a little change to SORN, a little less form filling for those choosing the SORN option whilst out of the country for more than one year

Basically you only have to register the vehicle SORN off the road once, not every year, and only 'un'-Sorn' it and tax it when it goes back on the road if that makes any sense at all

Government slashes motoring red*tape - News - Department for Transport


Government slashes motoring red tape
Publisher: Department for Transport
Published date: 15 December 2011
Type: Press release
Mode/topic: Roads, Legislation
Drivers are to be released from reams of red tape currently required by government, Transport Secretary Justine Greening announced today.

As a result of the Road Transport Red Tape Challenge – the government wide process to get rid of unnecessary, burdensome and overcomplicated regulation - the Department for Transport is:

Scrapping the regulation requiring motorists to hold a paper counterpart to their driving licence by 2015 – saving drivers up to £8m.

Improving the regulation surrounding the notification process for vehicles that are not in use on the road (Statutory Off Road Notification or SORN). Once drivers have notified the DVLA that their vehicle is SORN, they will no longer have the burden of annual SORN renewal.
Only issuing hard-copies of V5C vehicle registration certificates for fleet operators when needed, with the potential to be rolled out to private motorists.

Introducing a limited exemption from drivers’ hours rules so that those who also drive as Territorial Army reservists in their own time can continue to do so.

Following a vigorous process of challenge, both by the public and within Whitehall, a total of 142 road transport regulations will now be scrapped or improved.

Removing the need for an insurance certificate. The Department for Transport will work with the insurance industry on removing the need for motorists to have to hold an insurance certificate.

Abolishing the requirement for drivers to prove they have insurance when applying for tax meaning 600000 more people will be able to tax their car online. This has been made possible by new checks of existing databases for insurance under new Continuous Insurance Enforcement rules. The DVLA’s records are compared regularly with the Motor Insurance Database (MID) to identify registered keepers of vehicles that appear to have no insurance.
We will look at experience in other countries on driver Certificates of Professional Competence (CPC) - the qualification for professional bus, coach and lorry drivers. In particular, to see if we could remove the need for some sectors, such as farmers who drive stock to market, from needing a CPC.

Local Authorities will now have to ensure business interests are properly considered as part of any future proposed Workplace Parking Levy scheme. They must show they have properly and effectively consulted local businesses, have addressed any proper concerns raised and secured support from the local business community.

Abolishing the regulations on the treatment of lost property on buses. Bus companies currently have to wait 48 hours before they can throw away perishable items left on the bus.



Glad to hear the bus depot won't have to hold on to Mrs Muggin's bag of pigs trotters for 48 hours now
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  #102  
Old 21 Feb 2012
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What goes around, comes around

This subject matter has cropped up, again, in another thread which contains a further excellent summary of the UK regulations by Tony P.

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-vehicle-61877
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  #103  
Old 6 Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsprague View Post
I've read each post in this thread, I've dipped into it for the last 3 years to be honest in anticipation of a return to the UK.

I left the UK in May 2007 with my 4x4. I returned the tax disc for a refund once I left the EEA. Since that time the vehicle has been around Eurasia, out of the EEA. I've never registered the vehicle in another country, kept the car SORN'd in the UK.

So now, I have the joy of returning to the UK, compounded by the fact that 'my' government seems to deem my trip illegal.

Insurance-wise, it seems not to be possible to insure my car with a UK insurer as the car will be out of the UK at the start date of the policy. I have a green card purchased in Ukraine which covers all green-card member states (including the UK), except for Ukraine itself.

I'm going to book an MOT before disembarking in Dover Port, and I live just a couple of hours away.

My main worry is a run-in with the Orwellian surveillance organs of the regime. What are my best chances at escaping being recorded? I'll be driving at night, and avoiding motorways. Is this a wise move?? Any other tips? What are UK customs like? Are they likely to check car paperwork etc (the car still has UK plates). Or should I maybe use a 'local' set of plates (with my number, but in Pakistani format, used when driving through Afghanistan).

I really wish I was dealing with money-hungry Russian GAI-niks or mindless, indoctrinated Iranian militia than the 'computer says no' bureacracy of Britain.

Welcome back!!

Daniel
Daniel,
Any feedback of note?
How did you get on with this?
(I looked at your blog again but it is marked as "private").
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  #104  
Old 21 Mar 2012
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MOT/ITV & Insurance

Cheers Dave, just read your reply in the Maroc thread

Anyone out there have any experience of having a UK reg bike MOT'd at a ITV station in Spain, let's say Algeciras, will UK insurers accept it, at least while only in Spain?

How strict are the Spanish officials at the border of Ceuta for checking MOT's, insurance and road tax.

Where to get road tax in Spain if your UK road tax and MOT is invalid.

Been out of the UK for a while and is resident in Morocco, returning my UK reg bike to UK as I'm not willing to pay import duties. The bike was shipped to Casa port. Bike is long overdue its first MOT and I am hoping a Spanish ITV can do the trick, at least just while in Spain.

Please no lecturing of should've done this and...... already had my fair share from the missus
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  #105  
Old 21 Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macfisto View Post
Cheers Dave, just read your reply in the Maroc thread

Anyone out there have any experience of having a UK reg bike MOT'd at a ITV station in Spain, let's say Algeciras, will UK insurers accept it, at least while only in Spain?

How strict are the Spanish officials at the border of Ceuta for checking MOT's, insurance and road tax.

Where to get road tax in Spain if your UK road tax and MOT is invalid.

Been out of the UK for a while and is resident in Morocco, returning my UK reg bike to UK as I'm not willing to pay import duties. The bike was shipped to Casa port. Bike is long overdue its first MOT and I am hoping a Spanish ITV can do the trick, at least just while in Spain.

Please no lecturing of should've done this and...... already had my fair share from the missus
It just struck me that the back of a van would keep everything legal and solve all your queries.
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