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**ilesmark** · #**121** 17 Apr 2013

Oh dear, this old chestnut again.

Roamingyak is right - SORN the vehicle online once out of the UK and insure it locally, at least for 3rd party risks. That's what I did, and all I thought I could do, and so did many others on this thread.

Where what I did differed to Roamingyak's advice was that I re-entered the EU at the Russia/Latvia border and didn't want to run the risk of something happening between Latvia and the UK and then having to claim against a UK insurance policy with no UK MoT (and therefore no Road Tax either) and messing up my insurance record / getting a fine and a criminal record for the future. So I got the vehicle insured by buying a month's worth of EU Green Card 3rd party at the Russia/Latvia border and then drove straight to a prearranged MoT once off the ferry at Dover.

If re-entering the EU via Morocco/Spain then that might be more of a problem, given the greater likelihood of getting pulled over by the Spanish police for a paperwork check in a UK-registered vehicle!

**panhandle1300** · #**122** 17 Apr 2013

After leaving the EU at Algeciras, I cancelled my UK Insurance as it would be useless anyway in Africa - A word of warning, if you are cancelling your insurance don't tell them where you are at time of cancellation - Bikesure wouldn't refund me the 9 months I had left on my policy because I was not cancelling from within the UK .... what difference that makes I'm buggered if I know!
Throughout the trip I only bought local insurance if it was a condition of entry into that country apart from the USA and Canada where I hunted high and low for cover. Most local insurance companies wouldn't touch me, those that would were extremely expensive. I managed to find a company in Mexico that would cover foreigners for travel in the US and Canada - link here if you are interested, we had no incidents so can't vouch for them but 12 months cover for about US$300

.
We entered back into the EU at Bulgaria where I bought UK insurance online, no way I could get an MOT or road tax so just had to take the chance that I wouldn't have any incidents on the way back home - On our route back, Italy and France aside, the likelihood of being asked to show an MOT Cert. or Tax disc by the local plod is slim.
Just be as legal as you reasonably can be, alternatively ship back home every year

I didn't go down the EU Green Card route for this reason -
This from the DVLA website -
Any vehicle used in this country for more than six months in any 12 has to be registered and licensed here in the normal way with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA). In addition, where the keeper of the vehicle becomes resident in this country, the vehicle must immediately be registered and licensed here. Once a vehicle has been registered in this country its use must be covered by a motor insurance policy issued by a motor insurer authorised in the UK. - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...ance/DG_067628

**ilesmark** · #**123** 17 Apr 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by panhandle1300

I didn't go down the EU Green Card route for this reason -
This from the DVLA website -
Any vehicle used in this country for more than six months in any 12 has to be registered and licensed here in the normal way with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA). In addition, where the keeper of the vehicle becomes resident in this country, the vehicle must immediately be registered and licensed here. Once a vehicle has been registered in this country its use must be covered by a motor insurance policy issued by a motor insurer authorised in the UK. - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...ance/DG_067628

Ouch - very interesting! BUT - I would still have done as I did even knowing this as, if anything had happened, it would have been the Green Card people I/the other driver would have been dealing with and I fancy the chances of them raising the UK MoT/Road Tax/ (and now) UK residency issue would have been less than if it had been a UK policy.

In any case, the DVLA excerpt talks about an insurer AUTHORISED in the UK, not BASED in the UK. Any EU insurer (or even one from the slightly wider Green Card area) would be automatically recognised/authorised in the UK - it's EU law.

Moreover, the day I got the vehicle MoT'd, I went straight to the post office and used the 1 month Green Card policy as proof of insurance in order to buy Road Tax. They accepted it!

**panhandle1300** · #**124** 17 Apr 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilesmark

Ouch - very interesting! BUT - I would still have done as I did even knowing this as, if anything had happened, it would have been the Green Card people I/the other driver would have been dealing with and I fancy the chances of them raising the UK MoT/Road Tax/ (and now) UK residency issue would have been less than if it had been a UK policy.

In any case, the DVLA excerpt talks about an insurer AUTHORISED in the UK, not BASED in the UK. Any EU insurer (or even one from the slightly wider Green Card area) would be automatically recognised/authorised in the UK - it's EU law.

Moreover, the day I got the vehicle MoT'd, I went straight to the post office and used the 1 month Green Card policy as proof of insurance in order to buy Road Tax. They accepted it!

Just my view of what the law requires - i.e. that to be legal in a European member state then the vehicle must comply to the rules and regs of the country that it is registered in - therefore, you would require MOT, VED and legitimate insurance cover.
I also would disagree with you on insurance from another EU state being valid - Yes, you can get insurance from another company within the EU but not any company, they must be registered on the MOTOR INSURERS BUREAU DATABASE to comply with UK regs, and they are hard to find I can tell you from experience

-

This from the European Commission website -
Vehicles should be registered in the country of residence of the policy holder and/or vehicle owner. Provided their registration is in order, they may be insured by an insurer established in the country of registration or in any other EU country. Insurers providing cross-border insurance services must fulfil certain formalities under the EU insurance rules. They must also be willing to offer a contract. - Motor insurance - European Commission

This from the Motor Insurers Bureau, Information for Police website -

General Position

The insurance may have been obtained and provided in good faith but it does not comply with Section 145 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 unless the insurer complies with the following criteria:
- Cover on a UK vehicle should only be given by an authorised insurer who is approved under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and who is a member of MIB - Section 145(5) of the Road Traffic Act refers.

- If the insurance company is not a member of MIB the third party liability insurance does not comply the law here.

http://www.mib.org.uk/NR/rdonlyres/9...rPolicev81.pdf

I complained to the European Commission about the UK standing on this and got this reply -

Dear Mr Hatchett,
Thank you for your e-mail of 22 June 2012. You would like to know as to whether you can purchase a motor insurance policy issued by an insurer in a Member State other than the United Kingdom.
I can confirm that you can indeed buy a motor insurance policy issued by an insurer in a Member State other than the United Kingdom, as long as the insurer respects certain conditions, as explained below. The insurer must also be willing to offer a contract.
Insurance policies and green cards emanating from other Member States are recognised by the British authorities, provided that the vehicle complies with the registration requirements based upon the application of the normal residence test under Directive 83/182/EEC. Under that Directive vehicles which are circulating temporarily within or between Member States can be used without the need to re-register. However, these provisions limit visits to six months in any 12-month period. After this time, or sooner if the owner changes normal residence to the UK, he or she must comply with the registration and licensing requirements of the new home country.
Where a vehicle is required to be registered within the UK and that vehicle is used on the roads or in a public place, it must be covered by a valid insurance policy which is issued by an insurer which is a member of the Motor Insurers' Bureau (MIB) and is authorised to offer insurance policies in the UK. An authorised insurer for these purposes includes both insurers in the UK which have a domestic authorisation and insurers in the European Economic Area which are exercising their rights under the EU insurance
directives to offer insurance policies in the UK. The British law thus appears in conformity with the relevant EU legislation in this respect.
We advise EU residents looking to take out motor insurance to compare offers from different insurers in order to find the best deal in terms of premiums and conditions.
Their best aid in comparing deals is the Internet. You can find more information about motor insurers operating in the United Kingdom at The FSA Register.
Commission européenne

Researching that lot wasn't the best two weeks of my trip!!

**ilesmark** · #**125** 17 Apr 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by panhandle1300

Yes, you can get insurance from another company within the EU but not any company, they must be registered on the MOTOR INSURERS BUREAU DATABASE to comply with UK regs

Ha

The Green Card policy I bought listed the Motor Insurers Bureau as the UK contact in case of any claim, plus contacts for a long list of MIB equivalents in every other Green Card member state

**panhandle1300** · #**126** 17 Apr 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilesmark

Ha

The Green Card policy I bought listed the Motor Insurers Bureau as the UK contact in case of any claim, plus contacts for a long list of MIB equivalents in every other Green Card member state

Bugger

Wish I had known you back in July ...

Might be an idea to post that list in the insurance section

**ilesmark** · #**127** 18 Apr 2013

Well - we are talking about 4 1/2 years ago now

so I don't believe I have it any more, but if I find it I will be glad to post it on the HUBB.

From memory, it was a green A4 (or slightly smaller) pre-printed sheet, with blank boxes which were filled out by the clerk in the office at the border in front of me by writing in the details for the vehicle and me. I think it may have had a carbon copy bit which they kept. As the border was Latvia, the heading on the form made reference to the policy being underwritten by a Latvian insurance provider, but the way the form was laid out, with details of the MIB-equivalents for all the other Green Card member states on the back, it did look as though anyone entering through any other border would get something similar but merely tailored to show a national insurance provider for whichever country's border it was.

I have added this in in case it jogs anyone's memory and they happen to still have the paperwork.

Mark

**wheatwhacker** · #**128** 29 Apr 2013

It seem that owning a bike in the UK is a little more complex than Ireland.
There is no inspection needed in Ireland.
I have reregistered several bikes, registered here at my address without any issues, even though the bikes were not present in the country.
To renew motor tax/reg here in Ireland, you need proof of insurance. So far, I have been using my own insurance policy number and it works every time. As Carole Nash does multi bike policy's, it's easy to add bikes and take them off if I need to.
This system, means the owners of the bikes only pay for insurance when they actually need the insurance and not have it insured whilst it sits idle in storage.
For the traveler, it means that the bike reg can be kept current even if the bike is not present in the country.
I have one US registered bike in my storage and the owner just renews the reg in California, keeping it perfectly legal to get green card insurance when he needs it.

**Walkabout** · #**129** 23 Feb 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheatwhacker

It seem that owning a bike in the UK is a little more complex than Ireland.
There is no inspection needed in Ireland.
I have reregistered several bikes, registered here at my address without any issues, even though the bikes were not present in the country.

I suspect you are right; certainly ownership in the UK has a load of bureaucracy.
I have just come across this list of "things to do" that is taken straight out of an advert placed by a motorcycle dealer for a bike for sale that is not currently registered in the UK.
Maybe it is of use to someone: dealerships should know what they are talking about!

This Motorcycle will need to be registered with DVLA. The Registration procedure is simple. We spend a good deal of time working with the DVLA and HMRC to ensure that our bikes are compliant with all current legislation in order that our customers do not have any difficulties in obtaining age related registrations, we have not had a problem with this in over 700 motorcycles we have sold.

How to register an Imported Motorcycle.

1. MOT the motorcycle on the chassis number, not required for pre 1960 machines.

2. Insure the motorcycle on the chassis number.

3. We at the Motorcycle Emporium will provide the following forms:

▪ An invoice

▪ A V55/5 – Application form to register the bike at DVLA

▪ NOVA reference number as proof duties paid

▪ Contact details for the provision of a dating certificate for the age related number plate

4. Post all the paper work to the DVLA

5. You will then receive your tax disc, a new MOT certificate with your new registration mark within 3 to 10 days.

6. A normal V5C Registration Certificate will follow by post within the next 28 days.

7. DVLA will charge £55.00 plus the road tax fee to register the motorcycle

The reference to issuing a tax disc (in item 5) is no longer current; unsurprisingly, tax still has to be paid but a disc is no longer issued.
(so the bureaucracy continues to morph into a new subtance).

**topcat** · #**130** 10 May 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustaphapint

I was bored this morning so I emailed the DVLA with the following question:-

Please can you advise how I could remain legal if taking my UK vehicle abroad for an extended period say 2 years on a multi country trip.
I know you say I should export the vehicle if it's to be out of the country for over a year. But that is only practical if the vehicle is to be re-registered in another country. If I am constantly travelling between countries that cannot be done.
I know I can renew my road tax via the internet, but I can only do this if I have a current MOT.
It is not possible to renew a UK MOT whilst abroad, so once the MOT expires I cannot retax the vehicle without returning to the UK and as soon as I drive off the ferry I am committing an offense.
Are there any concessions for this catch 22 situation?

And I received the following reply:-

Thank you for your email.
You are right when you say that it would not be practical to register your vehicle in another country if you are passing through a large number of them over a two year period.
You would not be able to tax your vehicle because of the lack of a valid MOT certificate and you would not be able to declare your vehicle off the road because this can only be done if the vehicle was being laid up within the confines of the UK.
In these circumstances you would need to write a letter into the Centre quoting the registration mark of the vehicle and explaining why it would not be taxed or declared off the road over the next 2 years or so. You can ask for this correspondence to be entered on to the vehicle record. This would ensure that you would not receive any fines or penalties with regard to the fact that your car will not be taxed.
The following contact information should be used with regard to this matter;
Vehicle Customer Services, DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1BA.
I hope that this matter has clarified matters for you.
Regards
David S Evans
Motoring : Directgov

Hi travellers, I'd like to know if anyone has done anything similar more recently, and what was the response? Many thanks

**panhandle1300** · #**131** 11 May 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by topcat

Hi travellers, I'd like to know if anyone has done anything similar more recently, and what was the response? Many thanks

Don't bother. Unless the rules have changed in the last couple of years, (which a quick Google suggests that they haven't) you have no option but to be illegal .. Many posts about it on this thread - My experience here - http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...2-8#post419000

**BruceP** · #**132** 11 May 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by panhandle1300

Don't bother. Unless the rules have changed in the last couple of years, (which a quick Google suggests that they haven't) you have no option but to be illegal .. Many posts about it on this thread - My experience here - http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...2-8#post419000

Outside Europe no one cares about MOT or VED. Just SORN it some time after leaving. Book an MOT as you return home, and then tax it.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) using Tapatalk

**Tony LEE** · #**133** 11 May 2018

The time that people start to care about whether a vehicle is legal or not is when you have a serious accident.

The Spanish police - see Facebook page for N322 - have been cracking down on British vehicles without tax, MOT, registration and insurance and they use a public database to check on the vehicle status and issue big fines as required.

No reason why other police forces can't do the same.

Those travelling with a Carnet will also need to have valid registration if they need to renew it

**BruceP** · #**134** 11 May 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony LEE

The time that people start to care about whether a vehicle is legal or not is when you have a serious accident.

The Spanish police - see Facebook page for N322 - have been cracking down on British vehicles without tax, MOT, registration and insurance and they use a public database to check on the vehicle status and issue big fines as required.

No reason why other police forces can't do the same.

Those travelling with a Carnet will also need to have valid registration if they need to renew it

I'll repeat the outside Europe bit.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) using Tapatalk

**Tony LEE** · #**135** 12 May 2018

Then you are wrong again.

And if you SORN a vehicle that is outside the UK, you will be illegal in UK too because you have made a false declaration.

Quote:

If you’re taking a UK-registered vehicle out of the country for 12 months or more (also known as permanent export) you need to:

Tell DVLA before you leave by filling in the V5C/4 ‘notification of permanent export’ section of your V5C registration certificate (logbook).

Send it to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1BD. Include a letter if you’ve moved abroad and want your vehicle tax refund sent to your new address.

Keep the rest of your V5C registration certificate - you might need this to register your vehicle abroad.

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