To clarify, the petition reads, "That David Cameron is precluded from negotiations with the EU in the event of Brexit."

This seems sensible, given his lack-luster original shopping list and the failure to even achieve that in full.

SIGNED

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"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

He won't be in office in the event of a brexit "yes"; the Tories will ensure that he knows where his sword is, pointy bit uppermost.

As an aside, there is something for everyone in this website, which claims to be a think tank that is neutral about the question.
e.g.
Pros and cons of the EU-Canada free trade deal | Open Europe

Regarding the potential for negotiations post a Brexit vote, there is an almost unspoken assumption that we, the UK, would be negotiating with the EU; personally, I would prefer to see these negotiations pick off individual countries one by one, starting with the massive trade inbalance that we have at present with Germany.
(Merc, VW etc would have to sweat for a while, during which there will be German elections in 2017 and we have two years to arrive at a deal that replaces the current arrangements).

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Dave

All this talk of leaving Europe makes me smile.

What's the plan? Tow the UK further into the Atlantic?

We are not leaving Europe. We are considering leaving the union. It was initially an economic union, but all that has drastically changes over the past 40 years.

I suppose one question you should be asking is given the change in the type of economy and our industries over the last 4 decades, going from large multinational companies a large number of which were nationalised, to smaller companies that do not have the clout to benefit from this new marketplace and are being strangled by red tape. If we we're not in the EU now, would it be in our best interests to join?

To be honest, all the scaremongering and lame threats from government are really not helping their cause. Neither is wheeling out your political chums to back you up.



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After the current US president and likely the next US presidents recent statements, the Brexit crew are looking increasingly isolated.

Why?

Its not really for anyone to say, except for those involved, i.e leaders within the EU and UK citizens. What has it to do with the US? Nowt! Maybe they should concentrate on sorting out their owns problems instead of interfering in other peoples and countries, then we all might have a better life

Wayne

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The Balkans
https://new.horizonsunlimited.com/poi_entity/8417

Quite statement to make by the US about us being back of the line for trade agreements, considering I've just been reading how much we spend with them.

Mostly on defence, which really takes the biscuit really. We are currently about to take delivery of F35 Lightning jets from them at a cost of £5billion for the first 14 aircraft.

What really stings here is our own manufacturer BAE Systems is currently announcing redundancies due to lack of defence spending. Given that previous governments sold our aircraft industries down the river when we were already technically ahead of the rest of the world, we have to resort to partnering foreign company's to build anything today.

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The SAAB Gripen would fit onto our new boats, the fish heads would get their flying pay and we wouldn't have to sign up to as many wars to get spare parts.

Andy

I was quite taken with Triumph's new Thruxton R and was in the mood to splash some cash on a sweet weekend bike such as this. Reading the test of the T120 in Bike magazine the journalist commented on the usual (new bike) poor fuelling caused by meeting EU stage 4 regulations. An easy fix with the right software however, the marketing director was quoted saying the ECU has anti-tamper software mandated by the EU making this impossible.


As most bikers will know, the EU five years ago attempted legislation to criminalise us for making the slightest modification to our own bikes/property, institute a surveillance regime compelling dealers and their mechanics to report us to the authorities and implement draconian penalties such as confiscation of our bikes for transgressions. Needles to say, the UK would gold plate such legislation, as is their way.


Happily, organised protests managed to water down the legislation and limit it to smaller bikes.


Confused, I wrote to the Triumph director quoted and good enough, received the following reply within 24 hours:

Dear Mr xxx


Thank you for making contact and raising the issue of anti-tamper as featured in Bike Magazine. I must also point out that I am marketing manager and not director as quoted!


Triumph ride by wire motorcycles do come with anti-tamper feature, this has been introduced by Triumph ahead of EU legislation coming in. You are correct, it is not mandated at present.


I hope this helps


Kind regards


Haydn

Clearly, Triumph are ahead of the game and know what's coming. Sadly for Triumph (and me) I will not be buying a new Triumph. The only way we can avoid such draconian legislation affecting us here in the UK, improve our bikes and freedoms is to vote leave.

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I was banned from Pistonheads.com for posting this on their forum. They gave me the following reason:

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Are you bothered? (to mis-quote Ms Tate).

It is reported that a number of the UK MSM have curtailed or banned comments to their articles in their online media; freedom of speech is a precious concept and it is not always around when you want it.

Some other news outlets went with this item yesterday:-
UK Better Off Outside EU, Economists Say
Positive thinking in place of the usual scare mongering.

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Dave

So a US company moving HQ to Switzerland is them taking over our jobs.

From a US company, not a British one.

So that's a service type industry I take it? More of admin roles etc. Not manufacturing.

See I have a big problem with the way the UK now relies on banking, insurance, financial services etc.
We used to be the biggest industrial nation on earth, hell we started the industrial age. Now we're importing skills from France to build us some power stations.

We built the first commercial passenger jet, and in collaboration with the French, built the only successful supersonic passenger aircraft. Concorde. Yet today we buy from the US and France.

We once exported our skills and goods around the world, now we take a back seat and see what crumbs some faceless non elected bureaucrats throw us.

The skill level in the UK today is very poor.

Most industries are screaming out for skilled workers. There are very few apprenticeships to be had for the young, and those being done are a shadow of the ones that we did.
Our industrial nation is grinding to a halt, not through lack of work but lack of skills.

The government is now messing with the education system again we see. Its already a mess, and about to get a whole lot worse.

The only ones getting richer are politicians and bankers. A lot richer.

I think the government are bricking it. If we do vote out, it will cost a lot of them and their financial institution chums lots.

Yes this will have some backlash further down the food chain, however people will still need the basics. Food will need delivering, lorries will need mending etc, and life will go on.
If Tarquin can't afford his new Bentley, I really don't give a stuff.

Dont get me wrong, the British public can also share in our downfall. Sale of our own domestic products has always taken a beating at home.
Both the car and motorcycle industries are almost extinct due to the British consumer buying foreign vehicles over our own. But then if we were able to apply import duty, I think the number would have dropped significantly.

So back to your point. No its not one of our jobs. Its an imported one for a foreign company that will be sending profits out of the UK and being a further burden in the long run.

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Yes.

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Paul "Every county of England, every country of Europe and every (part of every inhabited) continent of the Earth" 94% done! What's left? Central America, East, Central and West Africa, Australia & New Zealand

The British car industry is alive and well. The fact a Nissan is made in Sunderland makes it no less British that a Cortina made in Dagenham. No one will upset this massive organisation of trained, efficient workers. If they could pick it up and move it without trouble it would be in China now. We won't stop buying their BMW's so they'll have to keep buying our Nissans. The components are Chinese anyway, so only the point of entry into the EU changes.

BMW are vocal about brexit because in the UK their brand commands a premium where as in others it drops down amongst the high-average ones. They correctly anticipate any spat will effect both BMW and Mini, but this is one German company trying to avoid a bit extra work not the whole economy.

Andy

Which one? Morgan or McLaren?

The British car industry is now owned by foreign companies or, as you pointed out, a foreign car maker with a plant over here to get round import duty and costs.

It really grates when you see smiling politicians happy that Jonny foreigner is building there cars over here and creating so many new jobs. They fail to add where the company profits are heading - out of the UK. Add in the loss of import duty that would be payable.

Jobs that would have been in the UK anyway if they hadn't meddled with our industries in that first place with forced mergers and selling off for a pittance.
Then when they sold them to their chums for next to bugger all, who then thoroughly screwed the companies, workforce and even dipped into pension schemes to fund their lifestyles, allow them to get off scot free.

This whole EU debate is really a question of who is going to screw us over the least. To be honest, I'm not sure.

Yes the EU has developed into a monster that is getting pretty much out of control, that is now making pretty bad decisions to try to hold it together.
On the other you have our own political parties that look no further into our countries future than the next general election, will sell us all down the river to get one over their opposition and above all are all in it to line their own pockets and further their own careers.

Welcome to the reality of capitalism. You can have your freedoms if you can afford it.

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But western, and westernised, nations are no longer engaged in capitalism, and therein lies the heart of the problem.

In short, real economies for real people in the real world have been abandoned by the financial engineering plutocrats (and how I do hate the latter expression and the associated bastardisation of the word "engineering").

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Dave