You know what hurts my back? 700 mile road days on an uncomfortable bike. Maybe the Super 10 is comfortable enough on the road that when you do drop it, you're feeling nicely relaxed and have plenty of strength left for lifting?

My point being, I read a lot about how horrible it is to pick up 500lbs bikes, but not much about how uncomfortable it is riding for 700 miles on a 350lbs bike.

I'm still working on the theory that it depends what the balance is on your trip. How many hours are going to be spent on a muddy trail? If it's a daily occurrence, then yes a light bike makes sense to me. But if it's 10 minutes out of a month long trip, maybe I'm prepared to hate my life for 10 minutes in return for 30 days of comfort?

It's horses for courses isn't it? 700 mile road days? Get a Super 10. Sahara desert? Get something a lot lighter.

100% road - An R1200RT, Goldwing, something like that.
90% road - An R1200GS, Super 10, something like that.
70% road - A KLR650, something like that.
50% road - a 250cc single...

I still haven't read anything that has convinced me that's a crazy way of looking at it.

I think this is an excellent way of looking at it.

I've done over 700 miles in a day on my XT660Z and it was one of the most comfortable bikes I've ridden; it was at a fairly sedate pace though (70-80 mph).

The only advantage of one of those bigger ones IMHO is the ability to go a bit faster where laws and conditions allow. Me, I'll stick with the middleweight bikes.

Fair play. But the XT660Z is like 450lbs isn't it? A lot of people would say that's still too heavy... And I refuse to believe that something like a KTM 690 Enduro R isn't more tiring to ride 700 miles on highway than a Super 10 would be.

It's 185 kg dry, whatever that is in lbs, so yeah, it's a bit of a lump.
Others might not find it so comfy to ride, but I love it. It's more comfortable than my wee-strom to ride, but the engine is, well, different. It would be a close call if I had to choose between them...

Never ridden the 690R or Super 10, so can't comment on them....

I love these conversations, it's like religion and people get afraid they will be converted if they open their mind a bit.
Then they go on to make up all kinds of scenarios to justify their closed mind like "well it's not a trail bike" no but then we are not talking trail riding now are we. If we were I sure as hell would Be looking for a 250 or a purpose built machine.

They are not for everyone and that is ok, they do offer another tool for the box and that's ok.

I picked one up for two reasons, one I could afford it which I think should always be a factor in anyones decision. second I needed a better two up bike, sorry the middleweights are what they are and two up machines they can be, but are like an over laden burro.

In the end I got a bike that beat the KLR in every single catagory and is a safer ride with infinatley better braking plus It did not get blown around on the highway by big rigs. For me not having to carry around a two by four to assist me in getting a fully laden KLR onto the center stand to lube the chain nearly made it worth it right there.
Tub less tires? Great now I just carry plugs instead of tubes, another win.
The last two are negatives IMO for the twin.


Now after all that if you want a big bike get one, if you do not and the old tractor works for you, that is ok. Ride and have fun, be grateful for whatever you may have, we all know or should at much of the world would like any ride, and we have options.

come on, where is the middle? I don't need either 250cc or 1000cc+ bike -
I want 450cc, if it's good for the Dakar it sure will be good for me.

Ok, fine...

60% road - tremens' steed of choice!

You really want a Dakar bike?
The 450 class are great off road (if set up right) but not GREAT on long paved roads and not many I've seen would be ideal travel bikes. Good, but not ideal.

The old Suzuki DRZ400S is still, IMO, probably the best of the bunch despite its old design. Suzuki reliability, not bad for luggage, simple to work on, inexpensive.

Others may argue for CCM, KTM 450, Husky 450 or BMW 450, I contend NONE are as good as the trusty old DRZ400S for traveling.

Also, don't forget the "other" middle weight bikes. The 650 class. Better highway ride, roomy and enough HP to cart luggage over 5K meters, true high speed cruising possible. (70 to 80 MPH) OK, but not great fuel economy. Great back road scratcher ... quite impressive off road if you do the proper mods to make them more off road worthy.

Many good bikes in the Mid size class: KLR650, XR650L, DR650, KTM 690, BMW Sertao or F650,
505 Husky, XT600 Yam, XT660 Tenere'. Of course, the DR650 is far and away the best of bunch for travel. (Yes, I own one! )

well, for sure better then any 250cc and that was the meaning of my post. 660cc is too heavy already so imo 4500cc is the holly grail here. I believe we'll see that class soon to be very popular again once 1000cc bikes won't sell well as expected.

The obsession with capacity is its own problem. 60 HP in a 100 Kg bike is race performance but race service requirements and reliability. 80 HP in a 250 Kg bike is touring technology, hence you know about it when trying for MX track use. With new materials, electronic etc. 50 HP from 400 to 600cc in a 170 kilo bike may well be the compromise, but the demand is tiny, hence we get race engines like the one CCM are detuning to meet the perceived capacity requirement. There will be sleeved down monsters, over worked race tech and old 400 cc tax dodger designs given a tune up if all you demand is the same capacity as Dakar bikes.

What you want is the lightest 45 HP bike with a 10000 mile service interval they can design today.

Andy

The BMW G650X range is a cracking bike that comes very close to the ideal RTW bike. 10.000Km service interval, very good on fuel and plent oompf for what it weighs (around 155 Kg wet) It does need some work though like the an extra tank and some suspension work.

I love the look of the new AT but I'd hate the weight of it every minute I was handling the bike.
My next bike (if I'd need one) could well be the coming AJP PR7.

If i see an ADV bike I like, I try and tilt it upright from the side stand with one hand on the LH end of the handlebars. It gives me a good indication of why I shouldn't bother with that particular bike.

I nearly bought an X Challenge. Rode it and was NOT impressed. Heavy feel to it, very poor suspension (soft front, harsh rear). That Bladder rear suspension is hazardous to your health ... and considerable expense$$$ to change it out for conventional shock absorber. The front too needs help, IMO. Way out of balance with rear. Now add fitting a larger fuel tank. PITA IMO.

Power was not impressive either, this getting straight off my DR650 (40 HP) and right onto the X Challenge ... which was a LIKE NEW example with about 3000 miles on the clock. Would not loft front wheel in 1st gear under power.
My DR does it in 1st and 2nd gear, power only, no clutch.


I had the cash in my pocket and positively LOVED the look of that BMW! ... had to tell seller I just could not do it. Did not feel right to me.

A striking beauty ... but just did not measure up to my Suzuki ... not even close.

Then I saw this ... and that pretty much put me off the X series bikes:

Here we see an X Country, broke swing arm riding very mild sand Whoops in
Mojave desert.

So sad, BMW could have dominated the segment with just a few more years
of R&D (and stealing 40 years of Japanese development).

They did exactly this with their S1000RR sport bike (based 100% on Suzuki GSXR1000) followed by massive R&D work, BMW have made it the worlds BEST sport bike! Could have done the same with X series bikes.

Better test is to lay the bike in its side ... flat ... now try lifting.
I like the new AT as well ... a beauty. But certainly won't be a "True" dirt bike, won't do what an AJP will do off road. But perhaps the AT is enough of a compromise to work for most travelers? Could you go two up on a AJP? Or CCM? Trade offs.

This would have been a great idea at the NEC, but all the new ATs were secured to the floor better than my house! The Honda guy I spoke with wasn't keen when I mentioned weight, and classed the NC700X and CB500X bikes as mid weight off road bikes . Even with the RR kit, the 500 is hardly much lighter than my 800, and my bike has more power for my every day riding. I'd asked him about the possibility of a mid weight AT.

It basically weighs the same as an R1200GS. I appreciate it's probably way more reliable , but that's just a bit too much for me. The main reason I went for my F800 over the 12 was due to weight. Just moving the damn thing around the garden, let alone riding off road!

At the moment, I think I'll stick with my current bike. Having upgraded the suspension and improved the seat (amongst other things), there doesn't seem to be any need to change.

I did say to the Honda gent that I really hope the new ATs sell well; if this is the case, it only adds to the commercial viability of 'adventure' bikes, and who knows what might appear in the future?