New Africa Twin (I don't get it)
 

Anyone tempted by the new Africa Twin?

I'm going to be in the market for a new 'adventure bike' next year, and I really want to like the new Africa Twin, but I just can't wrap my head around the point. Is there something I'm missing?

Lets compare it with the Yamaha Super Tenere which can be had for roughly the same price here in the US where there are big discounts to be had. The Super Tenere has more power, electronic suspension adjustment, cruise control, shaft drive, more fuel capacity, tubeless tyres, probably higher alternator output. I would expect Honda reliability and Yamaha reliability to be similar, so lets call that a tie.

Where does the Africa Twin beat the Super Tenere? It's about 40lbs lighter (if compared with the DCT model), has 1.7" more ground clearance, and has more off-road friendly wheel sizes. Ok, so it's probably slightly better off-road, but surely at these weights the gains are marginal? They're both over 500lbs, so neither is going to be ridden like a dirt bike by the average rider... and when riding along easy gravel roads, is the slightly lighter weight and bigger wheels going to make a huge difference in reality?

The other possible advantage for the Africa Twin is the DCT transmission. I read that for off-road novices (like me!), the DCT transmission actually makes it a lot easier to ride off-road because the bike handles gear changes/selection for you. Apparently Honda have tuned the system well for off-road.

But lets assume most riders aren't prepared to give up conventional gear changes for a DCT system... where is the advantage of the Africa Twin over a more powerful, better equipped Super Tenere?

If anyone is head over heels in love with the Africa Twin, please don't think I'm trolling here... I love the looks of the bike, and really would like to find an excuse to get one, but I just can't make sense of it when you compare the spec list with other bikes. I also know that no-one can truly know until test riding bikes which is better... so I realize this is a somewhat theoretical exercise!

You make some fair points regards new AT. Many here see the same ironies you've seen. But I'd say, lets wait until the magazine guys get hold of one and start doing comparos. DO ignore the initial "intro ride" article as they are almost ALWAYS 100% positive. Total BS of course but it's what they do.

Also, new owners of the bike tend NOT to be forthright and honest. In a year you'll start hearing the truth.

For the mags, wait for a multi bike comparo (probably a year away for USA), then you'll start learning TRUE stuff about the AT Honda didn't mention and you'll also learn more about the competition. Of course they'll be a ton of chatter and BS on ADV Rider ... but impossible to say anything there without the KTM and BMW Zealots hijacking any reasonable discussion. :thumbdown:

Of course as a dirt bike (as you've said) all these 500 lbs. monsters are a joke if things get truly tough ... unless you're Marc Coma :mchappy:

My take is buyers will go for the Honda based on it's history and a nostalgic attraction from some mysterious place. USA riders can't possibly have this as we never got the original bike! Most owners probably won't ride into nasty condition much ... but you never know.

I've just been reading a ride report on ADV Rider about 3 guys on V-Stroms (DL650) riding Latin America. They've taken those bikes into I N S A N E situations. Places I know in Baja - Mexico where I would struggle on a 250cc dirt bike. Deep sand, nasty rocks, you name it. They've had a rough time but have survived but the bikes got really beat up. They are still going. :D

It's nice to have the power, luxurious smoothness, comfort and luggage space of a big twin, but going off road is not their strong suit. (obvious, yes?)
I learned this years ago when I bought a new Vstrom DL1000 in 2002 and promptly took it to Baja! Wake up call! doh I'm a fair dirt rider but the Vstrom was clearly overmatched and I was clearly underpowered! :rofl:

Of course both the 1200 Tenere' and Honda AT will be MUCH better bikes than any stock Vstrom, but basic principles still apply. Heavy is heavy.

Regards front wheel sizes. A 21" matters. Big time. Bike will be easier to control in deep sand, will track straighter over rocks and will pull out of ruts easier without tossing you on your ass. 21" Rocks. Yes, for very fast road riding it's a trade off ... which I'm happy to accept.

I've gone with smaller bikes now for travel ... and I think if you look at trends, this is where the entire ADV travel world is going, has been going quite a few years now. Big bikes are fine if you are OK avoiding every dirt section you encounter along your route. This is fine for many, but even then, there are places where you simply can't avoid dirt.

I predict Honda will do "just OK" with the new AT. Like Harley, they'll clean up on accessories and factory farkles to "deliver True Adventure!" :rofl:

But it's all good, and who knows, maybe Honda will wake up and make the perfect 450 or 500cc travel/ADV bike someday? bier

Maybe I'm underestimating the off road potential, with that 21 inch wheel. It is striking when you look at the specs that they're all extremely similar to the old KTM 990 Adventure. I've never ridden one, but have read a number of times that the KTM 990 is the exception to the rule that heavy bikes can't do off road.

I don't actually enjoy riding off road, it's the means to an end for me... so I don't need a great off road travel bike (think I'd get the KTM 690 if I did), but having some ability to handle very occasional rough stuff if it appears on the way to my destination is of course attractive. I reckon 90% of my 'adventures' will be on road.

For some reason something draws me towards this bike, even though I can't work out a logical reason why :) The idea of it excites me more than the idea of a Super Tenere somehow. I'll go for a test ride and read all the reviews from owners and the press with interest when it comes out... hopefully someone will work out a logical reason why I should part with cash to buy one! Even the DCT appeals to me on some level... on one hand an 'automatic' bike seems wrong somehow, but on the other I suppose it's not that much different to having a quick shifter...

Very conflicted about this bike! :laugh:

I'd get a CB500X, put a Rallly Raid 3 kit on it and spend the difference on a trip.

Assuming money is no object (unfortunately it is! But just for the sake of argument) I guess AT Vs CB500X + RR off-road comes down to which of these advantages are better, for a very very unskilled off road rider:

AT: Bigger wheel size + DCT transmission + ground clearance

CB500X: 80lbs lighter + more compact dimensions

I know the CB500X has a very manageable power delivery, but so does the AT with the DCT transmission in the right setting according to reviews.

As I say, I'm not a fan of off road... it's something I know I'll have to deal with from time to time the further my riding trips take me from home, but not something I'm actively seeking out. So road performance is a factor here for me too.

Money no object? I'd get the AT for mostly road use but still get the CB500X + RR if I was going to head off the beaten track. Possibly anyway, as I just don't enjoy those high power bikes the way I used to when I was younger and more reckless.....
Or the new bonnie 1200 looks pretty tasty....

( to be honest i will not be so objective because i never liked the AT ou the TA )
Honda had made extraordinary bikes , and the RR was nice off road .
Here in France i know guys who had make incredible trips withe these AT . on hard hard pistes also .
Like Molly ( as always :clap:) I will say this : for a regular rider off road, even better one , the weight is number one problem. So , these heavy complicater bikes ( traction bla bla, DCT and whatever) wont do the job . And if you fall all the time, you will be exhausted at the VERY moment where you should not ( murphy is coming, ans he is not happy :oops2:) : i know what i am talking bout .
- to the best il will be boring and costly
-to the worst dangerous .
( here you have 50 % of AT lovers and 55 % of haters for theses reasons // i know it is too much but some lie )

At the end of the day it's just like the Super Tenere and even the big KTM.

They're all pretend off road bikes. They are designed to look like they are hardcore. They're not.

For the simple reason. THEY'RE ALL REALLY HEAVY. Until they can find a way to overcome gravity that will always be the case.

In the hands of a good off-roader they can be ridden anywhere and do anything but that rider will still want to be riding something 100kg less..

They're all really good at touring, cruising and generally ripping around on at the weekend. Because that's what 99% of their owners will do.

You can't have have all the power, comfort and fancy gimmicks without adding a huge amount of weight to the bike.

I'm certain if Honda did a survey and asked 99% of potential buyers if they would sacrifice the power and comfort for less weight and higher cost, none of them would really want it...

Honda could shave 50KG off that bike if they wanted to. But it would cost another £5000. No one would buy it.

The manufacturers aren't stupid.. They know the market, they do the research and they advertise and design accordingly.


If you want to ride the Baja, buy a mid-weight single with long travel and minimal comfort.

If comes down to the age old fact. YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERYTHING !!

wrong comparison - Africa Twin is nothing like Super Tenere, it's completely different category. AT is heavier dual sport bike while ST is heavier touring bike. Apples and oranges.

I have just tested stationary Africa Twin at local dealer. Beautiful bike, very light for what it is. I think it's gonna be my second do it all bike soon along the xt660z.

I had one of the first year Super Teneres in the US. GREAT bike....but too heavy. In your first post you said electronic suspension adjustment. Mine didn't have that. Do the new ones come with ESA?

By Super Tenere he means the big 1200. Not the XT660Z Tenere. :o

Ted

what are you talking about... I know.


BTW, I 'm sure new AT will be big 1200cc killer.

I had assumed you had misunderstood. Sorry...

As to me , the new Africa Twin and the Super Tenere are in same category.

Fat, lardy, expensive Adventure bikes built to have the Touratech catalogue thrown at them and only to be delicately cared for by main dealers.

They're both heavy touring bikes. Neither of them were designed to ride anything more 'off-road' that a gravelly campsite carpark.

The Africa Twin is no Dual sport... Not in my mind anyway.

As high speed mile munching touring bikes they are fantastic though and I'd love to have one in the garage.

Let's face it at least 99% of 1200 tenere's don't go off road cos they don't do it very well,,,,, well I can't any road,,,,, I would say 95% AT will do the same cos most of us can't handle it, I'd still have one cos they look great

Actually there was only one truly off road capable KTM twin ... and that was the KTM 950SE (special edition) Unbelievably light weight for a 950. Only sold for a year or two in late nineties, then discontinued. It has Carbs, gets terrible fuel economy but it rides like a 650! Pretty amazing bike! The 990 is bit of a Pig by comparison, if talking off road.

I get it, I've done similar tours. I like off road but unless on the right bike, it's not much fun. A BIG ADV bike will be OK most of the time but something like deep MUD or Deep Sand would be your undoing. Avoid.

I would wait at least a year before purchase of the Africa Twin ... or get a lengthy test ride PRE purchase. The Honda will be a great bike, won't be fast and won't be a dirt bike. But I'm betting it will be fun to ride.
bier