what are you talking about... I know.


BTW, I 'm sure new AT will be big 1200cc killer.

I had assumed you had misunderstood. Sorry...

As to me , the new Africa Twin and the Super Tenere are in same category.

Fat, lardy, expensive Adventure bikes built to have the Touratech catalogue thrown at them and only to be delicately cared for by main dealers.

They're both heavy touring bikes. Neither of them were designed to ride anything more 'off-road' that a gravelly campsite carpark.

The Africa Twin is no Dual sport... Not in my mind anyway.

As high speed mile munching touring bikes they are fantastic though and I'd love to have one in the garage.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Let's face it at least 99% of 1200 tenere's don't go off road cos they don't do it very well,,,,, well I can't any road,,,,, I would say 95% AT will do the same cos most of us can't handle it, I'd still have one cos they look great

I agree, both are too heavy and too expensive anyway for throwing around (although this is relative). For some maybe it's cheap
I think AT is on the verge, manual version at 232kg is not that horrible yet as ST.

I don't agree. Yes, they are different bikes for sure ... but certainly NOT Apples and Oranges. They are both BIG TRAILIES, over weight Adventure Bikes, similar engine capacity, close in weight. They are in the same Class. Far from Apples and Oranges.

The Honda is more stripped down / simple ... and to me that does set apart from the Tenere'. But they're still in the same class IMO.

EX: Just because the BMW GS1200L has shaft drive ... it will still be in the class with AT, Tenere', KTM 1290 (or whatever) and one or two more.

The BMW is probably the same weight as the Honda ... will the Honda work as well as the BMW Off Road? Lets hope so ... but don't underestimate the BMW GS1200. It's a pretty amazing bike. Better than it looks on paper.

I'm not sure how you judge a bike "Stationary" Perhaps reserve judgement until you take it for a spin. Sitting on a bike in the dealership is just slightly different than actually riding it!

I road tour on an ST (267kgs and all day comfort) and properly off road with a KTM Freeride (100kgs). Both would be hideous used in the other context. There is no bike out there that will do both well. It's like trying to find a tractor that will race competitively in F1!

My point? There are thousands of people wanting a 'sit up and beg' road bike with power, comfort and refinement (the ST gets slagged for being for being underpowered!). And there are literally tens of people wanting to buy a new true adventure bike to take RTW.

If you were a bike manufacturer who would you build your bike for? Undoubtedly that will have been Honda's conclusion too.

Seems unlikely to me (at least in the uk) anyone is going to build a bike suited to HU user needs - just not commercially viable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

.....but if you really like the AT more than the ST buy it anyway. We worry to much about "the best bike" - better to get whatever one you really like, enjoy it and stop reading bike reviews 'till you need to change it again - they only spoil your enjoyment of what you have!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks both - that's helpful.

I've had the front and rear springs changed for stiffer ones to match my 97kgs, but wont get to ride the bike before i start so good to know what i must do.

Ive changed the pegs and fitted a bash plate. I plan to fit risers before i leave and change the tyres but thats it.

The whole doohickey thing confused the hell out of me - in the end i concluded best to leave well alone - bike should only have 18k on the clock at the end of my trip, i can sort then.

Cheers
Andy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My reasoning works completely opposite. Workout where you want to go then take the bike that can do it.

For me, the bike is the tool for the job.. It's what facilitates my trip.

In my head I have places I want to go and things I want to see. I then research the roads (if any), the terrain and the distances etc. I then pick my bike accordingly, within my budget.

It's horrible to be restricted where you can go where you can't go because of what bike you're riding. The best places in the world are always off the beaten track, if only by a couple of km.

Next year I might be doing some tour guide work and then the perfect bike would probably be something as dull as a TDM900... But its the correct tool for the job.

To be that hell bent on a certain bike to have your 'adventure' dictated by it either makes you a fanatic (nothing wrong with that) or perhaps a little daft.

Unless of course you don't really want to go adventure riding. But then why would you be on an adventure travel forum !!!

I also think that if you really want something and you can afford it then go for it. Life's too short.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Makes total sense to me, but I'd add one additional factor: time available to do the trip. Having read all the information on these forums, I'm now pretty convinced that if you have limitless time to travel then something like a Honda CRF250L is probably the ultimate RTW bike. But I actually have a CRF250L and much as I love the thing, I would not want to do high mileage road days on it!

Ultimately, yes, you could say "I don't have enough time available to cross a continent slowly in 250cc style, so I'll just do one country," and that's fine if that's what you want. But for me the challenge of going ocean to ocean and things like that is part of the fun. Yes, I like what I see along the way, and the roads I ride. But I also get a sense of satisfaction in looking back over a map of a long route and thinking "I did that." Don't know why, I just do.

So once you've figured out where you want to go, then you have to figure out how many miles a day you'd have to do to complete the route. If that number is fairly high, then ability to do high mileage highway days is a factor in bike choice in my opinion.

I can see what your saying Ted, but it depends on the riders ability to ride those roads.

Just ride what you like, don't get hung up on what the bike can and can't do, as long as your happy on it doing what your doing.

Btw Ted, but off topic, how did you find Cambodia? We're off there is Feb to visit my son who's working over there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll PM you..

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Everyone I've met doing RTW or long trips on 250cc bikes have never said they wished they'd taken a heavier, more powerful bike, but many I've met on big bikes told me they'd wished they had taken something lighter. It's a shame that no one will make a proper RTW bike, I guess if we all chipped in here it would end up looking kinda like a moto version of that car Homer Simpson makes for his long lost brother.

My question remains, how long were those on the 250cc bikes traveling for? I've actually got a Honda CRF250L, and if I took a year off work to travel around the world that is the bike I would take, absolutely. And I wouldn't go near a major highway if I could possibly avoid it.

But in reality, my trips are likely to be a month, two months, maybe three if I'm lucky. Ok, I could see the world one country at a time on a 250cc bike and keep flying home, but as I've said before, I like the experience of traveling long distances on a trip... there's something I like about continent crossing. While I do like to see things along the way and don't want to do a world record attempt, I'm also ok with not having seen every single thing there is to see in a country as I ride through it.

This necessitates some high-mileage highway days, there is just no avoiding it. And honestly, I would rather pick up a 500lbs bike 3 times a day than ride 700 miles on a highway on my CRF250L, I really would. Don't get my wrong, great bike... but not built for highways. Also, at highway speeds the fuel economy drops off alarmingly, and the tank is tiny so you'd need an aftermarket tank.

It's like I keep saying, horses for courses. I don't think anyone disputes that the answer to the question of "I'm taking a year to ride around the world solo. What bike should I take?" is "a 250cc single." But many riders are asking a different question, which is "I want to travel a great distance over a couple of months. I'll mainly be riding on paved roads, but very occasionally I'll be riding on gravel. What bike should I take?" And from the reviews I've read it sounds like the Africa Twin could be a worthy answer to that question.

Very thoughtful comments from someone who's been out there, done it and thought about it a lot.
Couple thoughts:
First off, I agree the Africa Twin is likely to be a GREAT travel bike for what you've described. But since you're doing 1 month to 3 month trips, seems to me you could pick and choose THE RIGHT BIKE for the region you intend to cover

More off road or small, slower roads? Your CRF250L perhaps? Or if a fair mix of Off road/On road, then maybe go up a class to 450's? Or even 650cc class.

For mostly On Road travel I have hope the Africa Twin will do well, but may be even BETTER bikes for "mostly pavement" rides, consider: BMW GS, Vstrom, Aprilia Capo Nord, Yamaha Tenere 1200, Ducati Multistrada, various big KTMs. (1050, 1290, 800?), Kawi Versys 1000.

Regards your willingness to pick up a heavy bike 3 times a day ... may be more too it. When you fall you always risk having that lump fall on your leg, ankle, foot. Seen in in person many times. Not pretty. The other Wild Card is damage to bike. Some bikes crash well, some do not. Bikes like your CRF250L
or my DR650, both can hit the ground and rarely sustain serious damage.

But try that with a Vstrom, Multistrada or Capo Nord. We don't know how the Africa Twin will survive a crash, from the looks I say "pretty good". The Motorcyclist guy, Ari Henning, nearly bought it in the video, nearly high sided at 70 or 80 mph riding desert tracks. How would the bike survive a crash at that speed. I'm betting young Ari shit himself on that one!

Your "Horses For Courses" comment, to me, is SPOT ON.
And this is why I'd consider a different bike for every trip. Buy and prep for a certain region. Do trip, sell off bike. Next up, do it all again, perhaps change bikes ... or?
Just a few of mine going back to the 90's, mostly in Mexico, USA and Canada. All had their highs and lows for travel. I also did shorter trips ... and have tried lots of bikes from ALL classes.

XL600R - Headed to Baja (700 mile ride to border) in the 80's, plus thousands mi. more on/off road in California, Nevada.

KLR Press Bike in Copper Canyon in '98

Aprilia CapoNord press bike for review. Tested for two months, 2500 miles.

Tiger- 3 months riding UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Morocco.

strom, 90,000 miles of USA, Mexico, Canada. Thousands of pics.

XR250 3 weeks in Baja

WR250 California Desert, Sierra Nevada mtns., plus one two ween Baja ride.

DR650 in Baja. 65,000 miles, rides through California, Arizona, Nevada, Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Colorado 5 Mexico trips since 2006.