Buy Moto - Multi SA Countries - Re-Sell ???

[gregrr]

Hi all,

I have read as much as I could find on this topic but no one seems to have addressed my specific question.

I want to purchase a small <250cc motorcycle in Colombia then use it to ride between multiple South American Countries over the course of 3-6 months.

As I understand as a foreigner you can legally buy and sell a bike in the same country - no problem.
I will be traveling with my Colombian girlfriend, is there any advantage to having the bike titled to her rather than me? I'm guessing maybe tax advantage in Colombia but not a customs advantages in between countries.

I can't find good info but I assume you can ride a bike you own in between countries no problem - sounds like there may be paperwork attached to your import document so you can't leave the country without the bike you came in with; without explanation I assume. If it is stolen I imagine they will eventually let you out.

1) So here comes my first question, lets say I'm in Argentina and need to fly home for a few weeks or even a month or two. Could I put the bike in storage and fly home? Then return later to retrieve it?

2) What if I get to Argentinia and decide I don't want to ride back up to Colombia what are my options for selling, and being allowed to fly out of the country permenatly? I assume that is a bit different than leaving with the intention of returning for my property (bike) that remains in the country in question #1

3) Some friends of mine are considering joining for parts of the trip. Let's say one joined in Ecuador bought a bike and rode to Bolivia. Then another friend flew to Bolivia and the original friend flew home. Can one tourist transfer ownership of the bike to another tourist in a different country than where the bike was purchased? Does it matter can the new tourist take over the "in-country" paperwork while the original tourist remains the legal owner of the bike? When the last friend uses the bike then we result in the same - need to sell it in a country not where it was originally sold, now possibly by a new owner - But is this at all possible? Or would friends need to keep their travel time to one country and buy/sell within than country.

4) Alternatively to selling I assume as a last resort you could always ship the bike home from say Argentina even though you purchased it in Colombia, Yes?

Thanks for any input from someone who has experience with this. Be great to have some of these logistics figured out before landing on the ground and there seems to be a lot of different opinions and experiences.

[xfiltrate]

gregrr ,

Thank you for your literate and crystal clear questions. While I am answering, please review the following threads.

Not just my posts, but posts of others.
I might take the rest of the day to provide you with answers, but I will. I am a foreign permanent resident of Argentina currently snow bound at my ranch in Flagstaff, AZ. Having a Colombian mate will facilitate much for you.

start here:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...a-buenos-47117

and go here:
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-ushuaia-90113

back soon, xfiltrate

[xfiltrate]

Originally Posted by gregrr

Hi all,

I have read as much as I could find on this topic but no one seems to have addressed my specific question.
gregrr, I will respond in dark green to each question, but first I commend you for reading related posts to your questions on the HUBB. The HUBB has a wealth of information and the advantage of different points of view. I expect and welcome comments different from those I post here. Don't be discouraged, hundreds maybe even thousands have done what you propose to do. It is possible for a foreigner to purchase a motorcyle or motorcyles in South American countries and tour, it can be fun and it can be done safely and legally.
I want to purchase a small <250cc motorcycle in Colombia then use it to ride between multiple South American Countries over the course of 3-6 months.
You choice of motorcycles is right for South America - if you are traveling one up and although I have met two up on a 250cc with gear, but it looked pretty unstable. It depends how big you and yours are, and how much gear you will be carrying and how you plan to carry your gear. When rosa del desierto and I did our first South American 8 country tour, we purchased one NX400 Honda Falcon and one XR250 Honda Tornado both made in Brazil, but both purchaed brand new in Buenos Aires, Argentina. "rosa" is a tall, slender woman and her share of our camping equipment and I am over 6' almost 200 pounds and I carried my share of full camping kit.
If you are traveling two up I suggest the NX400 or two XR250s or equivilents. Honda's are my bike of choice in South America because parts and Honda dealers are everywhere. At most you are only two days away from having parts mailed to you in country with no customs hassles. And remember second hand parts never make it through customs, this to prevent chopping and parting out stolen bikes.
OK, let me know what bike or bikes you intend to purchase and I will be more specific on racks, panniers, soft luggage v hard tail bags etc.

As I understand as a foreigner you can legally buy and sell a bike in the same country - no problem.
This is for the most part true. I am not aware of the regulations in Guyana, Venezuela but for the Mercosur countries who have normalized their regulations - each country agrees to allow foreigners to legally purchase and sell a vehicle or motorcycle in country. But, for the purpose of protecting dealers from the import of bikes from country where the bikes can be purchased less expensivly all Mercosur countries prohitbit the fo foreign tourist from exiting the legally purchased vehicle or motorcycle from the country, unless the foreign tourist is a permanent foreign resident of the country. - this process takes 3 years on average.
I will be traveling with my Colombian girlfriend, is there any advantage to having the bike titled to her rather than me? I'm guessing maybe tax advantage in Colombia but not a customs advantages in between countries.
Yes, titling the motorcycle or motorcycles in your Colombian girlfriend's name will allow you and her to exit the bike from Colombia. Colombia as other Mercosur countries will issue a temporary exit permit and want you to state where you will be traveling and when you will be returning the bike(s) to Colombia. Your girlfriend will have to provide a residence address in Colombia and this may or may not have to be verified by a police check. You will have to check locally to confirm this, I know this is the situation for Argentines or permanent foreiign residents of Argentina to exit legally purchased vehicles or motorcycles. In Colombia the DIAN - located at most transportation hubs can give you specific Colombian related info. Your girlfriend will have no problem getting answers from the DIAN. rosa and I had dealings with Colombia's DIAN officials and found them to be well educated and very very helpful.

I can't find good info but I assume you can ride a bike you own in between countries no problem - sounds like there may be paperwork attached to your import document so you can't leave the country without the bike you came in with; without explanation I assume. If it is stolen I imagine they will eventually let you out.
Generally, your vehicle or motorcycle will be entered into a adjacent country by a TVIP - temporary vehicle import permit. Each country allows a certain number of months for the vehicle to be in country. Example: your Colombian registered motorcycle can be in Argentina for up to 8 months - if you request the maximum at the border when you enter. During these 8 months you can legally leave the country without the motorcyle, but you must return and exit the motorcycle from Argentina before the 8 month expiration on the TVIP. You will have to check at each border because there exists some variations of the Argentine senario.

1) So here comes my first question, lets say I'm in Argentina and need to fly home for a few weeks or even a month or two. Could I put the bike in storage and fly home? Then return later to retrieve it?
Yes, if you enter your or your girlfriend's Colombian registered motorcycle into Argentina on a TVIP you can leave Argentina without the motorcyle as long as you or her returns to Argentina and exits the motorcyucle before the TVIP expires.. remember you must request the maximum 8 month TVIP at the border or you will be issued a 3 month TVIP

2) What if I get to Argentinia and decide I don't want to ride back up to Colombia what are my options for selling, and being allowed to fly out of the country permenatly?
It is absolutely illegal to sell a foreign register motorcycle entered into Argentina on a TVIP in Argentina, very illegal and the bike will be confiscated if the illegal sale comes to the attention of the authorities.
I assume that is a bit different than leaving with the intention of returning for my property (bike) that remains in the country in question #1
Correct!

3) Some friends of mine are considering joining for parts of the trip. Let's say one joined in Ecuador bought a bike and rode to Bolivia. Then another friend flew to Bolivia and the original friend flew home. Can one tourist transfer ownership of the bike to another tourist in a different country than where the bike was purchased? Does it matter can the new tourist take over the "in-country" paperwork while the original tourist remains the legal owner of the bike? When the last friend uses the bike then we result in the same - need to sell it in a country not where it was originally sold, now possibly by a new owner - But is this at all possible? Or would friends need to keep their travel time to one country and buy/sell within than country.
This question is continuously debated on the HUBB, the short answer is NO one foreign tourist who has entered a foreign register bike into a Mercosur country cannot transfer title to another foreign tourist in country. And NO, the TVIP is non transferrable and the owner who entered the bike and was issued the TVIP must also exit the bike. Of course, at the border an additional rider can be added to the TVIP, and the owner may authorized the additional rider to ride the bike in country, but it is very questionable whether the additional rider listed officially on the TVIP can exit the bike, and if he/she does with what title will the additionalrider enter the bike into the next country? And, most importantly all motorcyle insurance will be null and void if after an accident it is discovered an illegal title transfer has occurered.

4) Alternatively to selling I assume as a last resort you could always ship the bike home from say Argentina even though you purchased it in Colombia, Yes?
Yes, as long as the bike ships before the TVIP expires, and you have the proper documents to enter the bike into your home country. Also, shipping out of Buenos Aires has been covered on the HUBB, I suggest you do more research on your own regarding the vegaries and costs of such an operation. And, if the bike is in your girlfriend's name she would have to have visa to visit your home country and the vehicle import regulations might be very different than if the bike were titled in your name.

I have several ideas of how you can accomplish purchasing, traveling and selling in South America, but please absorb and question what I have written thus far before I go on.
Many foreigners have bought and sold in each country visited and upgraded each purchase and left the last country visited with much more money than they invested in the first bike.


Thanks for any input from someone who has experience with this. Be great to have some of these logistics figured out before landing on the ground and there seems to be a lot of different opinions and experiences.

My pleasure. xfiltrate

[charapashanperu]

xfiltrate is right and has answered all your questions. I can help it be a reality. PM me.

[brclarke]

Excellent post, xfiltrate. I'm always pleasantly surprised by how much work some folks here will go to just to help others have a great ride!