Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Technical, Bike forums > Other Bikes Tech
This may be a stupid question - air cooled engines? This may be a stupid question - air cooled engines?
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Other Bikes Tech For Technical Questions on bikes not listed in the other forums.
Photo by Marc Gibaud, Clouds on Tres Cerros and Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia

The only impossible journey
is the one
you never begin

25 years of HU Events


Destination ANYWHERE...
Adventure EVERYWHERE!



Photo by Marc Gibaud,
Clouds on Tres Cerros and
Mount Fitzroy, Argentinian Patagonia



Like Tree7Likes

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #21  
Old 18 Oct 2012
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Yorkshire UK
Posts: 1,779
Andy, given the number of dishwasher repair men, machine operators and others who claim the title of engineer I’d suggest being more specific. For example in my case I would say I was a graduate manufacturing engineer working in process improvement as a six sigma black belt.

For Walkabout, a different answer:

I worked in the automotive industry for 13 years up to five years ago. My take on this would ignore the usual biker fixation with specific technologies. A Toyota Landcruiser (water cooled) will statistically prove more reliable in a long range travel environment than any bike. Sensible comparison though is close to impossible as comparable numbers just don’t exist. I would start my efforts on this by looking at:
· Intended use. If you exceed the design specification things will start to fail at an increasing rate. From the consumers point of view it is difficult to spot bikes actually designed for this type of use. Small capacity MX type machines are designed to race, so short , high power runs followed by any required maintenance, not carrying a lot of kit for a long distance. Larger machines may have off road style but are honestly expected to be used on sunny weekends and the odd two week holiday. Old machines may have had an expected design life that is now over, or the designer may have been useless and spent a fortune providing 40 year life parts for a 7 year life design.

· Design aspects that potentially detract from our requirement (electronic security systems etc.) I would say should count against a product. We need a cooling system though.

· Stability of design. Engineers, regardless of robust processes and taking the first point into account cannot find every issue until the product is used. Any new bike will have some sort of issue and the customers will find it. How this is dealt with varies with company culture, size and processes.

· Age of design and materials. We no longer see the sorts of obvious leaps and bounds they had in mechanical and electrical products even 30 years ago. What is changing rapidly is manufacturing techniques and materials. New designs can be more ambitious and without failures in their intended use because a component that used to be injection moulded and at risk of melting is now sintered ceramic. Things like 3D printing are going to allow shapes of component that were production impossibilities on older designs. These will be more robust and have higher performance.

· Where the design spec is met by sealed for life items, removing maintenance access is perfectly logical. Where this is not met, good design should make maintenance easy. Only where there are process failures will a semi-sealed design fail and require access.

· Robust process. The Japanese are the worlds best manufacturers. They have had detailed, naturally stable processes for almost every aspect of production for 60 years. A boutique manufacturer using non-automotive suppliers in small numbers cannot have the sort of process that simply does not make mistakes at any significant level. The root cause of the Ural subframe failure will almost certainly be related to a small production workshop relying on worker skill and inspection. Ural cannot insist the welding is done on a computer controlled process with statistical controls in place, the numbers are too small. Other manufacturers have adopted the Japanese techniques and some adapted them to other cultures but less experience still has an effect.


I therefore see no real argument in favour of either cooling system. A well executed water cooling system is more efficient. The well executed requirement is more likely to be a modern but proven design by a Japanese manufacturer or large manufacturer using Japanese techniques. Where the well executed design, working to an overland specification does not exist, air cooling can be meet many aspects of the requirement albeit at lower performance.


Basically, let someone with more money than sense do the testing on something fairly modern from a large manufacturer with a good reputation and don’t worry about what’s inside. Know how to fix what can be fixed and have the right tools , it isn't rocket science regardless.

Andy
Reply With Quote
 

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Threaded Mode Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stupid chain question Gawain Yamaha Tech 3 30 Sep 2008 23:39
Stupid Question for my Ego nugentch Travellers' questions that don't fit anywhere else 43 6 Oct 2007 23:11
Simple (stupid?) Jerrycan question Redhouse Equipping the Overland Vehicle 22 2 Jul 2005 02:03
Stupid question Dan 23 Yamaha Tech 2 17 Apr 2002 21:08

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

25 years of HU Events
Be sure to join us for this huge milestone!

ALL Dates subject to change.

2025 Confirmed Events:

Virginia: April 24-27
Queensland is back! May 2-5
Germany Summer: May 29-June 1
Ecuador June 13-15
Bulgaria Mini: June 27-29
CanWest: July 10-13
Switzerland: Aug 14-17
Romania: Aug 22-24
Austria: Sept. 11-14
California: September 18-21
France: September 19-21
New York: October 9-12 NEW!
Germany Autumn: Oct 30-Nov 2

2026 Confirmed Dates:
(get your holidays booked!)

Virginia: April 23-26
Queensland: May 1-4
CanWest: July 9-12

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

Adventurous Bikers – We've got all your Hygiene & Protection needs SORTED! Powdered Hair & Body Wash, Moisturising Cream Insect Repellent, and Moisturising Cream Sunscreen SPF50. ESSENTIAL | CONVENIENT | FUNCTIONAL.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes.
(ONLY US RESIDENTS and currently has a limit of 60 days.)

Ripcord Evacuation Insurance is available for ALL nationalities.


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Every book a diary
Every chapter a day
Every day a journey
Refreshingly honest and compelling tales: the hights and lows of a life on the road. Solo, unsupported, budget journeys of discovery.
Authentic, engaging and evocative travel memoirs, overland, around the world and through life.
All 8 books available from the author or as eBooks and audio books



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

Your ad could be here, on EVERY page of the HUBB, or the whole website, or as many as you like!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:43.

Contact Us - Horizons Unlimited Motorcycle Travellers Website - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top