Go Back   Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB > Regional Forums > North Africa
North Africa Topics specific to North Africa and the Sahara down to the 17th parallel (excludes Morocco)
Photo by George Guille, It's going to be a long 300km... Bolivian Amazon

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by George Guille
It's going to be a long 300km...
Bolivian Amazon



Trans Sahara Routes.

Like Tree33Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 13 Aug 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,460
Out of curiosity - did the caravan routes east all go over Kufra, or is there another route east from Faya?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 13 Aug 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: zürich
Posts: 287
caravans

no - there were many different pistes!
one started near the oasis of Mut and went to Uweinat and further SW - called Abu Ballas Trail (Donkey Trail)


if you google with
"commerce transsaharien"
you get quite a lot of maps
http://up.picr.de/26489840jo.jpg

Last edited by ursula; 13 Aug 2016 at 16:42.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 13 Aug 2016
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 403
Quote:
...did the caravan routes east all go over Kufra, or is there another route east from Faya?
That really depends on the period. During Senoussi times Borkou (including Faya) was under a loose Senoussi rule, and there was no East-West trade North of the Ennedi, all routes controlled by the Senoussi in the Libyan Desert were North-South.


Of course earlier, going back to Pharaonic times as Ursula said, there were clearly some East-West routes, the Abu Balla trail was one, the Wadi Howar another.
__________________
Happy Travels, András
http://www.fjexpeditions.com
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 14 Aug 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,460
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 14 Aug 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: zürich
Posts: 287
Wink caravans

As the eastern part of the Sahara is not well represented among the internet maps I had a look in my books


map of Michael Asher s book „Darb el arbain“ or „La piste des quarante jours“ or
"In search of the forty days road"
the donkey trail between Dongola, Wadi Milk to El Fasher is still used today





map from a book with many more maps „ Desert Road Archeology“ Heinrich Barth Institut Köln

I wonder why the french built the Fort Agoza in the Mourdi Depression at the border Chad / Sudan.
Was there an East – West passage coming from Merga /Nukheila - El Atrun - Dongola ?
On some maps there is a caravan route marked from Dongola to Bilma, passing south of Tibesti.

Arita Baaijens describes also a camel caravan route from Dongola to Bir Bidi, Oyo and Merga / Nukheila as a part of the Darb el Arbain route coming from El Fasher (2000/2002)
http://www.slideshare.net/baaijens/desert-travels-in-darfur

Last edited by ursula; 14 Aug 2016 at 16:42.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 15 Aug 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,460
Except for the border crossing shouldn't be a problem walking from Faya to El Atrun then.
And perhaps security concerns in Northern Darfur, but the real problems are further south.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 15 Aug 2016
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 403
It is really a question of semantics here, the way I would define a "caravan route" is a regularly used trade route with well established wells and resting places, under the control of one or several political entities.


In this respect there were no real East-West routes across the Libyan Desert in medieval times, the only major routes were going South from Kufra (controlled by the Senoussi) and the Darb el Arbain controlled by the Sultans of Darfur.


There were the occasional one-off caravans which traversed little used routes (e.g. the caravan of Ali Dinar from Darfur to Kufra via Uweinat -Jebel Anwar - described by Bidi el Awad, as told to Arkell and printed in Sudan Notes and Records), but generally there was no real East-West traffic via the central Libyan Desert, except for the short-lived Farafra to Kufra camel trail through the great sand sea via Ain Dalla in Senoussi times.


Also there was some trade between the Senoussi in Kufra and the Fezzanese Oases, that went via Wau Kebir, Wau Namus and either Tazerbo or Rebiana.


Prior to that the Tibu controlled the whole area between Kufra & the Tibesti, as they were hostile to all outsiders there were no routes through this area linking North & South. Most of the 'routes' marked on old maps are the tracks of one-off travelers & explorers or just hearsay.


Of course further south there was regular trade between Bornou and Darfur, but all that happened south of the Ennedi. Similarly Darfur was linked to the Nile via several routes, as Ursula mentioned the Donkey trail from Dongola is still in use.
__________________
Happy Travels, András
http://www.fjexpeditions.com
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 15 Aug 2016
Contributing Vendor
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 403
Said donkey caravan, departing to El Fasher from Dongola (November 2015):

__________________
Happy Travels, András
http://www.fjexpeditions.com
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 15 Aug 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,460
Thanks Andrasz and Ursula for clearing that up.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 18 Aug 2016
Registered Users
New on the HUBB
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 9
I wouldn't want to spend my energy on crossing borders. The following looks impressive enough to me. I don't think anybody has done it recently:
- Learn Hassaniya
- Go to Chinguetti (or further east as long as you consider it safe)
- Have someone teach you how to care about camels (I'm sure people here can help you with some contacts)
- Buy a camel or two
- Walk them to the coast
- optional: Walk them back on a different route
- Sell the camels and write a book about your experience

Crossing the desert unsupported is hard enough as it is. No need for politics.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 18 Aug 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,460
The original poster should surely do just that. And go from there.

In Africa, crossing borders have unfortunately become such a large part of the voyage, both time-wise and expense-wise, that many travelogues these days occupy themselves with this more than the actual travelling.
Same sad development is evident on this and many other forums.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 19 Aug 2016
Chris Scott's Avatar
Super Moderator
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,814
Great answer bayu – to the point (Ursula suggested similar 2 weeks ago).
These plucky guys did as much in 2002:
Tasting the sand - Travels with camels in Mauritania
Still possible I reckon, maybe with the requirement of nightly sat calls to police.

This very experienced guy, Regis Belleville (did Chinguetti-Timbuktu direct with a guide - 1000km between wells) set out on a solo west-east in 2005 trying to stick to the 20th parallel (Majabat, Tenere, Tibesti). He got as far as the Tenere. Planned to carry on but presumably Saharan events outran him.

Chad Ennedi would be another great location;
Sudan Nubian Desert a bit easier.

Camel crossing the Sahara – top down, left right – periodically captures people’s imagination but besides missing the point (IMO), the way things are in the Sahara today is just unnecessarily complicated and risky.

Another good read: the hubristic Geoff Moorhouse’s Fearful Void.

Last edited by Chris Scott; 21 Aug 2016 at 10:04.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 19 Aug 2016
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 39
Like some peaple have suggested you, start by a 2 to 4 weeks desert trip in order to learn what is the Sahara and manage/ride camels.
Manage camels is not easy and will require few months of practice with a guide.
I have done few camels trips those ten last years in the deserts of algeria.
You can do for example the Tam-Djanet in one month with camels or Nouakchott-Chenguetti in Mauritania.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 19 Aug 2016
Registered Users
Veteran HUBBer
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: zürich
Posts: 287
camel caravans Sahara

BTW I proposed Atar in Mauritania and Dongola in Sudan to start because there are big
camel markets in these towns, easier to buy some good camels.

Another option is to join an existing local camel caravan, rather a tough journey !
Still on the way seen in the past in

Mauritania: N/S from Tichit/Aoukar with salt
https://www.flickr.com/photos/726643...n/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/726643...in/photostream

Mali : N/S from Taoudeni to Timbuktu with salt
Niger : E/W and W/E between Bilma and the Air mountains with salt and dates
Libya: S/N in the Erg Idrisi from Chad to Kufra with camels to slaughter
Libya: S/N near Uweinat from Sudan to Kufra do
Sudan: S/N near Dongola from Kordofan to Egypt do

Have also a look at Google Map !
20°59'42.7"N 22°43'56.3"E
and at Here Maps
21.35832,22.96397
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 22 Aug 2016
Registered Users
HUBB regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 21
Yes it seems border crossings are going to be a main problem of this trip, whether they are closed or militarised. I'm still researching all this and getting deeper. Visas shouldn't be a problem, provided you can prove you're actually going to leave the country. The Algeria/Tunisia border is closed overland.

I have made contact with a man from a tribe in Algeria who is currently living in Australia and is offering to help where he can. I also have a contact in Mauritania who is offering to help with that leg of the trip, so the pieces are starting to fall into place, even if they are rather small pieces, but hey you gotta start somewhere.

As far as camel training goes yes I have no experience! I'm getting in touch with camel farms in Aus to train here, and when I get to Western Sahara I plan to spend a bit of time there acclimatising and training also.

I've been away for a couple of weeks (Vipassana) hence my silence on this thread, but I will be active again now once I have filtered through all the amazing information everyone is giving...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
adventure, camel, desert, sahara, unsupported


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 Registered Users and/or Members and 2 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2015 - Heading east from Europe, add your itinerary / plans kim Travellers Seeking Travellers 190 5 Mar 2016 07:38
Crossing CHINA east to west around Oktober 2015 - looking for a group LCramses Travellers Seeking Travellers 2 26 Nov 2014 07:59
Afghanistan; crossing east to west 2009/10 danielsprague Ride Tales 0 10 Sep 2013 19:44
Crossing from West Africa to East Africa Fearless sub-Saharan Africa 4 11 Jan 2013 13:01
Nigerian crossing East to West Landygirl sub-Saharan Africa 8 13 Dec 2012 09:20

 
 

Announcements

Thinking about traveling? Not sure about the whole thing? Watch the HU Achievable Dream Video Trailers and then get ALL the information you need to get inspired and learn how to travel anywhere in the world!

Have YOU ever wondered who has ridden around the world? We did too - and now here's the list of Circumnavigators!
Check it out now
, and add your information if we didn't find you.

Next HU Eventscalendar

HU Event and other updates on the HUBB Forum "Traveller's Advisories" thread.
ALL Dates subject to change.

2024:

Add yourself to the Updates List for each event!

Questions about an event? Ask here

HUBBUK: info

See all event details

 
World's most listened to Adventure Motorbike Show!
Check the RAW segments; Grant, your HU host is on every month!
Episodes below to listen to while you, err, pretend to do something or other...

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

2020 Edition of Chris Scott's Adventure Motorcycling Handbook.

"Ultimate global guide for red-blooded bikers planning overseas exploration. Covers choice & preparation of best bike, shipping overseas, baggage design, riding techniques, travel health, visas, documentation, safety and useful addresses." Recommended. (Grant)



Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance.

Ripcord Rescue Travel Insurance™ combines into a single integrated program the best evacuation and rescue with the premier travel insurance coverages designed for adventurers.

Led by special operations veterans, Stanford Medicine affiliated physicians, paramedics and other travel experts, Ripcord is perfect for adventure seekers, climbers, skiers, sports enthusiasts, hunters, international travelers, humanitarian efforts, expeditions and more.

Ripcord travel protection is now available for ALL nationalities, and travel is covered on motorcycles of all sizes!


 

What others say about HU...

"This site is the BIBLE for international bike travelers." Greg, Australia

"Thank you! The web site, The travels, The insight, The inspiration, Everything, just thanks." Colin, UK

"My friend and I are planning a trip from Singapore to England... We found (the HU) site invaluable as an aid to planning and have based a lot of our purchases (bikes, riding gear, etc.) on what we have learned from this site." Phil, Australia

"I for one always had an adventurous spirit, but you and Susan lit the fire for my trip and I'll be forever grateful for what you two do to inspire others to just do it." Brent, USA

"Your website is a mecca of valuable information and the (video) series is informative, entertaining, and inspiring!" Jennifer, Canada

"Your worldwide organisation and events are the Go To places to for all serious touring and aspiring touring bikers." Trevor, South Africa

"This is the answer to all my questions." Haydn, Australia

"Keep going the excellent work you are doing for Horizons Unlimited - I love it!" Thomas, Germany

Lots more comments here!



Five books by Graham Field!

Diaries of a compulsive traveller
by Graham Field
Book, eBook, Audiobook

"A compelling, honest, inspiring and entertaining writing style with a built-in feel-good factor" Get them NOW from the authors' website and Amazon.com, Amazon.ca, Amazon.co.uk.



Back Road Map Books and Backroad GPS Maps for all of Canada - a must have!

New to Horizons Unlimited?

New to motorcycle travelling? New to the HU site? Confused? Too many options? It's really very simple - just 4 easy steps!

Horizons Unlimited was founded in 1997 by Grant and Susan Johnson following their journey around the world on a BMW R80G/S.

Susan and Grant Johnson Read more about Grant & Susan's story

Membership - help keep us going!

Horizons Unlimited is not a big multi-national company, just two people who love motorcycle travel and have grown what started as a hobby in 1997 into a full time job (usually 8-10 hours per day and 7 days a week) and a labour of love. To keep it going and a roof over our heads, we run events all over the world with the help of volunteers; we sell inspirational and informative DVDs; we have a few selected advertisers; and we make a small amount from memberships.

You don't have to be a Member to come to an HU meeting, access the website, or ask questions on the HUBB. What you get for your membership contribution is our sincere gratitude, good karma and knowing that you're helping to keep the motorcycle travel dream alive. Contributing Members and Gold Members do get additional features on the HUBB. Here's a list of all the Member benefits on the HUBB.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:34.