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14 Apr 2018
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Honduras
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
I agree, would never use that system. Seen too many racks crack and break in Baja.
That sort of system puts stress onto your steel rack ... not to mention those "Wedge" mounts and plastic plates.
When riding 100's km on bad wash board road, most racks will crack and fall apart. Lots of wasted time getting things welded up. Been there, witnessed this several times.
I prefer old school "throw over" soft bag system where straps go OVER seat or frame, which takes 90% of the shock from rough road. You only need keep the bag off the exhaust.
You can still crack a rear sub frame if you over load your tail bag or box however.
With straps over the seat you have built in shock absorber system (soft seat) and on some bikes, you can go with NO RACK at all, just a heat shield for pipe.
I'm curious if you removed ALL the luggage off your KTM every night?
To me, that is A LOT of extra work. I've traveled with guys using Wolfman ... and getting it all off and back on is a bit of a job, IIRC.
I prefer INNER bags (the Nelson-Rigg panniers shown above come with inner bags)
All my stuff goes in inner bags. At Hotel, grab inner bag from panniers and go. Panniers stay put. Of course I take my top dry bag in as well. I use no tank bag, only Camel Back.
So only one trip from bike to room. And less than one minute putting inner bags back into panniers. About two minutes to strap on tail bag next morning.
I've seen guys struggle removing and remounting panniers onto their bikes with racks. Some use a lot of extra straps, hooks and such. With Inner bags, my panniers stay put on the bike. Always. I don't worry about theft of bags themselves. Secure parking a priority.

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This was my first go at any long distance touring and I actually had to build the racks from my KTM, so I bought the Wolfman Expedition bags because of their price and volume limit (to keep my kit light). My subframe was aluminum and it's a motocross bike, so I was in a unique situation. That's a bit off topic.
So I've lived in Latin America for a long enough time to have learned the unfortunate consequences of theft. If it's not nailed down, there's a high chance it'll disappear. Additionally, the Expedition bags do not have liners or inner bags that can be slipped out with the bag's contents. I had to take the panniers off. There wasn't any other option. I will say that there's a quick learning curve with the Expeditions and the system is masterfully simple. No exaggeration, I could have my saddlebags and duffle off in under 45 seconds. It's really that simple. I kept the seat straps connected and therefore could sling the panniers over one shoulder and then simply carry the duffle in the opposite hand. Literally all my luggage in one easy trip.
I timed myself putting the bags back on, and that is a 3 minute process, and that's not racing. So, yeah, it's not slip on, slip off like the Moskos, but it's definitely a lighter system and I would guess that it's much more durable.
But, as I said earlier, I probably wouldn't use the Expedition bags again for international travel. I probably would't use soft bags at all. I was traveling solo and sometimes I wanted to stop at a park or Maya ruins site. You could ask a guard to keep an eye on your bike if it's a big open parking lot, but that's not always an option, and guards can't always be trusted. If you want to park your bike in a town or small city and explore for a few hours, hard lockable panniers is the best option in my opinion...at least in Central America.
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14 Apr 2018
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: california
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirtyOne
So I've lived in Latin America for a long enough time to have learned the unfortunate consequences of theft. If it's not nailed down, there's a high chance it'll disappear. Additionally, the Expedition bags do not have liners or inner bags that can be slipped out with the bag's contents. I had to take the panniers off. There wasn't any other option.
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Yea, my house was robbed twice living in Guatemala and Van broke into once.
No other option for inner bag? Any common re-usable grocery or ice cooler carry bag will work perfectly as inner bag ... one of my pannier sets uses them now! But if your Wolfman's are that easy to go ON/OFF then no need. The guys I traveled with took about 30 minutes to load up in the morning ... everyday. (two panniers and Top duffel bag) But to be fair, it was their FIRST trip using the Wolfman's. Learning curve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirtyOne
But, as I said earlier, I probably wouldn't use the Expedition bags again for international travel. I probably would't use soft bags at all. I was traveling solo and sometimes I wanted to stop at a park or Maya ruins site. You could ask a guard to keep an eye on your bike if it's a big open parking lot, but that's not always an option, and guards can't always be trusted. If you want to park your bike in a town or small city and explore for a few hours, hard lockable panniers is the best option in my opinion...at least in Central America.
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This is always the challenge using soft luggage and leaving the bike to go for hike, visit a ruin or shop around town. But if you think hard panniers are more secure ... well ... you may be living in a fools paradise!  Any hard pannier can be cracked into in less than 5 minutes by a kid with a screw driver and hammer. Witnessed this in Mexico!
So not an easy thing to overcome, often you just have to look around and ask, try to find a trustworthy person to keep any eye on your bike(S) usually money helps.  I generally find kids. Pay half up front, half when I get back. And I always mention Policia.
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14 Apr 2018
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Veteran HUBBer
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Honduras
Posts: 175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
Yea, my house was robbed twice living in Guatemala and Van broke into once.
No other option for inner bag? Any common re-usable grocery or ice cooler carry bag will work perfectly as inner bag ... one of my pannier sets uses them now! But if your Wolfman's are that easy to go ON/OFF then no need. The guys I traveled with took about 30 minutes to load up in the morning ... everyday. (two panniers and Top duffel bag) But to be fair, it was their FIRST trip using the Wolfman's. Learning curve.
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Yeah, I'm pretty mechanically minded, I built my KTM from the ground up, so fiddling with straps in the sweltering heat in Mexico in full kit wasn't something that I was willing to accept. Those Wolfman bags were very quick to take on and off once you establish an order of operations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
This is always the challenge using soft luggage and leaving the bike to go for hike, visit a ruin or shop around town. But if you think hard panniers are more secure ... well ... you may be living in a fools paradise!  Any hard pannier can be cracked into in less than 5 minutes by a kid with a screw driver and hammer. Witnessed this in Mexico!
So not an easy thing to overcome, often you just have to look around and ask, try to find a trustworthy person to keep any eye on your bike(S) usually money helps.  I generally find kids. Pay half up front, half when I get back. And I always mention Policia. 
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And here goes the soft vs. hard pannier conversation...
I can agree to that. If they want to get into an aluminum pannier, a hammer and a screwdriver would be an easy way. A bike cover can also add some security, although if you roll up into a central park in a town in Honduras on a "big" bike on a Saturday afternoon, there will easily be 100 eyes on you, so putting a cover on it won't really do much. I still feel that a set of hard cases would put my mind more at ease. I've yet to ride with them, so for now, it's only a supposition.
I do remember having a conversation with Daniel Rintz, (the rtw traveler and filmmaker) while we were in Guate together for about a month. He had the Touratech panniers on his GS. I asked him about hard vs soft luggage and he stood by hard luggage for rtw travel. He's very much like me in thought process, and I think that he made a good argument for hard cases, with safety and ease of use being at the top of the list. For a TAT ride, I'd go soft, for a trip through the Americas, then it'd have to be a set of aluminum boxes for me.
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14 Apr 2018
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R.I.P.
Veteran HUBBer
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: california
Posts: 3,824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirtyOne
And here goes the soft vs. hard pannier conversation...
He's very much like me in thought process, and I think that he made a good argument for hard cases, with safety and ease of use being at the top of the list. For a TAT ride, I'd go soft, for a trip through the Americas, then it'd have to be a set of aluminum boxes for me.
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I get it  ... and for many travelers makes perfect sense. The Alu boxes "look" far more secure than soft panniers. If weight is not a concern ... hard boxes are a win.
Most casual thieves see the big Alu boxes and walk on to an easier target.
But then there is THE COST of hard Alu box system! I used GIVI hard plastic panniers on my DR650 when I first got the bike. They came off my Vstrom.
When I went over to Soft Panniers ... I lost 35 lbs. off the bike. On a 650 dual sport, this is huge difference when riding off road.

Givi hard bags on DR650 ... one of 5 trips to Baja on this bike.
If using the very expensive Jesse bags ... add at least 10 kg. more than GIVI ones or most other Alu boxes from EU.
Even in a minor fall I've seen Tourtech or BMW and other boxes get bent so the top would no longer fit on the box. This is another common story from travelers. So ... never fall over with your hard bags!
I've fallen dozens of times with soft bags. (Only off road) A few scrapes, no damage.
On my buddies R1200GS we had to Bungee cord his Touratech boxes on for last 1500 miles of riding. No longer water proof.

$100 Nelson-Rigg panniers, $60 Wolfman duffel. Not too bad with inner bags.
I still need to pack lighter.
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14 Apr 2018
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Veteran HUBBer
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Honduras
Posts: 175
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Took another look at the OP's options listed and of them, I would be between the AS and Wolfman. If I were in the USA and had time, I would order the Wolfman and Nelson Rigg that mollydog suggested and get a hands on test with both side by side and just return the ones that I didn't like. Since I have experience with Wolfman and their mounting system (which I love) and very high quality construction, I feel that's probably what I would lean towards.
Since I'm here in Honduras and have to order stuff and wait weeks for it...well...that makes the selection process much more difficult! Generally though, I like to hold these kinds of products in my own two hands. You can immediately tell the difference between quality and construction, which is obviously impossible when shopping online.
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