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23 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
That technique may work on soft Knobby tires on dirt bike rims, but on other rims with safety beads ... running stiffer, road oriented tires, it's not going to work. (God knows I've tried it!)
21" front tires practically fall off the rim on a dirt bike rim like your KTM. Looked like the soft knobby on there was already broken by the time you'd stopped.
A 17" rear wheel with a knurled safety bead like the DID wheels used on DR650 and other bikes, can be extremely tough to break the bead. Once broken, spooning tire OFF back ON is not the hard part (for me).
The hard part is initially breaking the bead on the stiff rear street tire. I've even seen Tire pros at shops struggle with these using the No Mar tire changer.
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Breaking the bead can be next to impossible on some tyre / rim combinations. The Michelin Desert + Excel rim on the back of my CCM took me a day and a half just to break the bead last time I changed it - and that was in my garage. I came very close to taking an angle grinder to it. There's no way at all it would come off at the side of the road with one person and two 8" levers. And it's not just lack of experience - I've been changing my own tyres for 40yrs and can do "normal" ones in about 20-30 mins.
The worst part is it now needs changing again .....
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23 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backofbeyond
Breaking the bead can be next to impossible on some tyre / rim combinations. The Michelin Desert + Excel rim on the back of my CCM took me a day and a half just to break the bead last time I changed it - and that was in my garage. I came very close to taking an angle grinder to it. There's no way at all it would come off at the side of the road with one person and two 8" levers. And it's not just lack of experience - I've been changing my own tyres for 40yrs and can do "normal" ones in about 20-30 mins.
The worst part is it now needs changing again ..... 
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I've never done a Michelin desert but have done a Michelin Baja which is probably similar construction while I remember it as a stiff tire I don't remember any problem breaking the bead... I worked as a mechanic at a small bike shop a couple yrs back and we did a lot of tires.. It was all done by hand with tire spoons as the owner was too cheap to buy a tire machine.. He built a fulcrum bead breaker out of a long 2x6 that fit into a jig on the workbench.. He was a street bike guy taking the tire off all on one side and had never seen the method of dropping the rim inside the tire that I use..
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23 Jan 2016
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having only ever done 10-15 tyre changes myself, I count myself in the "have got a bit of an idea on it, but need more knowledge" category. There's been some really useful comments here, and a few useful ideas taken out, many of which appear to be tyre dependent?
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1 Feb 2016
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These seem like a good idea. tyre irons with a ring spanner on end which could save you carrying a socket for wheel nut?
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1 Feb 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMurr
These seem like a good idea. tyre irons with a ring spanner on end which could save you carrying a socket for wheel nut?
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These are good too. Gab at Zen Overland makes and sells them. From good quality materials.
__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
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24 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Hopper
I've never done a Michelin desert but have done a Michelin Baja which is probably similar construction while I remember it as a stiff tire I don't remember any problem breaking the bead...
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It wasn't specifically the Desert tyre - I've done a number of those on other bikes and they're tough and need a bit more "commitment" than stuff like MT21s but otherwise they're ok. It was that Excel rim + Desert combination that proved impossible. Looking at it when I finally got the tyre off the lip where the sidewall locates is more pronounced than normal so it was holding the bead in place.
That works well as a "safety" feature - the same rim design on the front held the tyre in place so well that one one trip I didn't notice I had a puncture for 10 miles but the flip side is that when you do eventually notice you can't fix it (the rear anyway - the front isn't quite so tough)
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24 Jan 2016
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On the 640 breaking the bead is not the difficult part when changing re-enforced carcass tires, it is the narrow drop centre band on the rim that causes the most grief.. The rims are fairly narrow so it is hard to get the bead to stay in the slot on one side when you pry across from it on the other, kinda chews on the knees a bit..
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24 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Hopper
On the 640 breaking the bead is not the difficult part when changing re-enforced carcass tires, it is the narrow drop centre band on the rim that causes the most grief.. The rims are fairly narrow so it is hard to get the bead to stay in the slot on one side when you pry across from it on the other, kinda chews on the knees a bit..
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Try using Giant HD Zip Ties to squish the tire beads together, allowing the two beads to drop further into the drop center, making spooning on of tire on opposite side easier.
As you approach the Zip tied areas, just unclip the zip ties (most are re-useable) and pull them out of the way. Works pretty well.
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24 Jan 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backofbeyond
That works well as a "safety" feature - the same rim design on the front held the tyre in place so well that one one trip I didn't notice I had a puncture for 10 miles but the flip side is that when you do eventually notice you can't fix it (the rear anyway - the front isn't quite so tough)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Touring Ted*
I had a rear flat in my spoked/tubes triumph 955 tiger on the motorway 10 mikes from my house. I had a full puncture kit with me. I used every trick in the book and that bead just would not break. I had to get the AA out after an hour on the hard shoulder.
Once home I attacked it a again with a long levered manual need breaker. Even in the jig, it wouldn't budge. It took me an hour with a can of wd40 and a crow bar getting it to separate. I can't remember the tyre.
I've changed hundreds of tyres by hand and on machines and that rim was impossible. No wonder they changed them to cast wheels after two years.
So !! The point is. Sometimes it's almost impossible with whatever tools you have.
Anyway, after that I sold the bike.
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Yes, it's the rim design. There are designed this way on purpose ... to avoid being sued into oblivion on a wrongful death case. The Japanese company DID and others have made rims like this for a long time.
TED, you should have figured out what my friend Bob (Triumph 955i) did ... he always carrys a big C clamp ... only thing we found to break that bead. It's the one I borrowed after riding 50 miles on a flat Distanzia. Bob showed me how to do it ... it works! BUT STILL ... a PITA!

Bob and I (and 8 others) in Copper Canyon in '07. His 955i after a little tip over on road down to Batopilas ... he was snapping pics, riding no hands ... it bit him.
For Triumph, using tubed tires on big heavy and FAST bikes, they needed rims that would hold tire fast when flat and a tire that would not break its bead easily. If bead breaks (especially front tire) at 80 mph ...the tire could come clean off the wheel. Then what? I know some old timers here probably had that happen to them on old bikes many eons ago. (it did for me!)
So they added that knurled safety bead holder thing on the rim and made it so it hangs on strong to tire bead. Many many dual sport and ADV tube type wheels use this type of rim and use tires designed to stay seated even when flat. (tubeless tires used with tube)
On the old Triumph Tiger list serve communities this issues came up many times. Finally, someone contacted then CEO of Triumph America, Mike Vaughn. He confirmed that Triumph specified this type of rim and tire for "safety" reasons.
Quite a few Tiger owners converted their rims to Tubeless type.
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