MollyDog,
Don't selectively take my quotes out of context...reread the point I was making in this post and EVERY post I've made on this thread: BMW's made since 2002 have faced questions of durability IRRELEVANT of model(F650, 1150/1200 GS), etc. Going to Chinese manufactured parts may actually help in an odd way...

IF the Chinese get clear cut instructions on design, quality expectations, and a defined manufacturing process...they can produce very high quality stuff...look at the IBM Thinkpad for example...IBM controlled every aspect of the process for years and produced some the most durable laptops out there.

Relative to the DR, reread my post again...every 5 years a "variety" of things have changed on the DR...and in total during that time period they can be considered significant, depending on the purchaser of that vehicle.
How often have these DR's consistently seen 50k-100k miles...and still going strong? I'm curious...

Its unfortuntate what's happening to Maria and I've kept up with her trip, BUT her bike is post 2002 and she's choosing BMW dealers part of the time. As I've said in prior posts as have many many others, having a pleasant experience with one nowadays is an exceptional experience. Luckily, I've got a couple good local ones...I see on rare occasion...which is why I ride an old K75

__________________
edde
93 BMW K75s
www.motoedde.com

I'm not at all surprised to see some BMW bashing - I think they're the company that has labeled itself as THE great adventure motorcycling company and perhaps the bikes don't really live up to it for various reasons these days.

My experience has been limited to a 40000 mile Americas tour on an Africa Twin. Not the whole picture by any means but I regularly noticed that in the various bike shops I visited to get my AT serviced I the other travelers with BMWs were having repairs carried out.

On the whole there was a feeling of disgruntlement among these riders at the service provided by local BMW dealerships - some bikes had warranty cover too. The output shaft seal seems like an inexpensive item that a dealer should stock and yet I recall three occasions where riders were left high and dry waiting for parts to be shipped from Europe.

More recently I look at the bikes Ewan and Charlie (and Claudio) have used. Hardly inspirational reliability and something that the BMW marketing guys would be cringing about. That said I would have been interested to have seen how they would have got on with the KTMs.

I want a motorcycle that I can ride for 50000 miles anywhere I want without doing anything other than routine service work. I'm not sure BMW can do that anymore. It's interesting looking through the Bike tech forums to see which bikes are best suited to this adventure motorcycling lark...... they're not German.

You should be in politics Edde

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Ok guys...

My thread title wasnt thought out as well as it should of been and my objective was to start this thread as a place that BMW F650 owners could tell me about their experiences...

Sadly, y opinion of the 650´s is only getting worse.

Im at Dakar Motos waiting for pollos birthday party and some spares and many a F650 owner is turning up and passing thorugh etc...

Nearly everyone of them is cursing the bike. All with failing ABS, leaking seals, water pumps knackered and the headlamp subframe breaking through fatigue. Bits and pieces breaking and falling off..

Now of course, all bikes suffer and have their faults but not to this extent...

I am prepared to take the flak for saýing this the F650 is NOT a good bike. I wouldnt touch one with a shi*ty stick.

Thier only saving grace seems to be comfort and good fuel consumpion (which is easily rivalled by a Vstrom or Transalp)

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Ted,
As quastdog mentioned, why should they bother with such preconceptions?

I did have some hopes that this thread could bring some objective feedback on the topic, but I have now given up on that aspiration. As a contrast, there is a KTM thread that is streets ahead of this one in meeting this aim, for the 640 Adv:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...lems-list-9345
It contains information from those who own, or have owned, these bikes, unlike the majority of posts on this thread.

Regrettably, I think that this "crap" thread has missed the chance - it needs to lie fallow (die in the ditch basically) and, in due course, some more structured, objective feedback may be available:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-threads-33390
IMO, this development will be quite important for the HU webpages: hopefully it will succeed.

For specific information about the F650 you could do worse than go to the chain gang (as referenced in an earlier post) or the UK equivalent:-
BMW F650 (UK)
Both of these have contributions from actual owners (or they are all bluffing!).

Lastly, while all the BMW F650GSs in South America are breaking down and providing grief for their owners, in the rest of the world they are doing just fine:-
Adventure.gs - The very best experience in motorcycling training and touring.
Just one more example of a real owner with specific feedback on his bike.

I hope those links help your mate to make up his mind.

__________________
Dave

I completely agree.

It's very tiring to have this comparison and people getting all fired up like they're talking about which football team is better. Brand loyalty really scares me sometimes.
Like I said on the first round on the circle of this thread, not all of these claims are clear as to what the basis of the information is.
'ABS, leaking seals, water pumps knackered and the headlamp sub frame breaking through fatigue' All but the headlamp sub frame (hate to think what happened to that bike as I've never heard of that one but a little welding easily takes care of that one) are well known, and if you have a little knowledge of maintaining your own bike shouldn't need professional help. If you get caught without the spares for those issues, you deserve to wait forever for them.

I'm not sure what type of traveler are found in SA (there are many kinds), but I'm starting to think a lot of people who think a bit to lightly about a trip like this and expect a stock BMW can do the job. Awesome marketing from BMW, but if a customer believes everything they get (s)told we're in trouble.

From my experience, no stock bike can do this, and all need preventative measures to known issues. Hence, can we stop mentioning things like water pump, fork seals and ABS (who needs it anyway) as it's kind of like saying:'Oh my god, my chain is all worn' and don't add to this thread (Walkabout, I have some hope still we can fix this thread). When they get mentioned I'm thinking the owner might not really know what they are doing. And when mentioning electrical issues, can we get a bit more specific? Side stand switch, voltage regulator (not sure why I keep motioning this one as I rarely hear of a failing one), etc. So again we can sift through the known issues and get a better idea. And even then, maybe a little background of what might have caused it. Lots of crashes, un-ordinary vibrations, exposure to salty water, drowned, etc. Reason why I say this is that we had issues with our ignition and switch gear on the Tenere after rainy days, so now we cover them up each night with the poncho. Problem solved. Maybe a few questions you could ask those guys at Dakar Motos Ted. I think I might be repeating myself here.

I haven't taken this bike out for a big trip yet, but also as mentioned am doing a ''lot'' of work on it to prevent known failures, protect things and speed up maintenance. This work makes me very confident that short of what's inside the Rotax I know this bike inside out. That way I'm not at all fussed of a fracture in the headlight frame, fork seals and ABS.

10 or so bolts plus the body parts and you're at the headlight frame. That probably is quite a bit more than a DR, XT, XL, XR, KLR (not the new one) but not than a Tenere fairing which was a royal pain. How do I know? I actually took it through 13 time zones. The amount of times I didn't have to take that tank off. And off course it's always full.
I'm not saying this to jerk myself off, but just because who needs this stressed thread if there is no un-circumstantial evidence.
I like to think this forum was set up to provide constructive information about overland travel with you own transport, mainly a motorbike. Something the KTM thread provides.

Oh, and while we are talking about this, could we all please be more specific in the Description of your current trip, or a major trip section our profiles? Or is this not public viewable? It can’t take to long to write maybe to and from or the distance traveled maybe. It really helps to assess the persons background and put a bit of context on the reply, dig, comment, opinion, etc.

__________________
Tacos Tyring Travels.com

So if a thread about "your" bike points out its faults you take your "toys" and go home? hmmmmmmm?

I've seen plenty of objective feedback. How much documentation do you need? How specific do you want to get before you take someone's account as credible? This thread, seems to me, is not the definitive, objective tome about the F650. It's merely a casual observation of what a couple travelers' have observed. Like most threads, others chimed in. Are they not free to do so?

Ted is credible, so is Maria.

Perhaps a NEW thread is called for? Something like:
The Unbreakable F650 From Alaska To Usuhia
Be sure to include The Smelly Biker account! It's priceless!

I disagree. Many of the posters here own a F650 or have owned BMW's and some have given a thumbs up on the bike.

As for me, I have ridden and reviewed many BMW's including the F650.
The point is the majority of BMW owners I've met know next to nothing about their bikes, its history or model evolution. Most let dealers do servicing. RTW folks are a bit different. (but not for long)


Patrick
Not On The Road

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

I've been riding and skipped over a few or more posts before making this one.

If you go on long trips, especially ones involving a lot of off road riding, there are few smarter choices in bikes to make other than those you can fix yourself, or those that can be fixed by a basic mechanic shop. It's actually very simple.

Expectations are our own, as are most of the problems we incur.
Self sufficiency is a choice, and even made blindly, it's still ours.

Did your Pod skip a note, the paleteria hasn't your favorite sprinkles?

It's only the foolish who do not deal well with the inconveniences.

2 water pumps, 1 ignition coil, 1 clutch, 4 sets of wheel bearings, 2 sets of head bearings, 1 stock shock rebuild, 1 gearbox rebuild (bearing went), all the touratech stuff broke, 5 chain/sprocket sets, intake hose, 3 fork seals, 2 fuel injectors, 5 clutch cables, handlebars, 4 cam chain tensioners, lost count of broken mirrors, cant be bothered to count brake pads, 1 fuel pump.... other stuff I've forgotten.

90000 miles of bad roads, drowned in rivers, riding salt lakes, hit by cars, dropped countless times, overloaded, fed bad fuel and sat on by fat people.

After all its taken me through I cant complain and after a bit of TLC it'll be ready for the next ride. :-)

__________________
Missing, presumed fed.
https://youtube.com/@ChileBob

I was waiting for you to join in. Now we need some of the other long timers like Renedian to share some of there feedback.

The wheel bearings, head bearings, stock shock rebuild, chain/sprocket sets, fork seals, clutch cables, handlebars, broken mirrors and brake pads are wearible items.

Interesting how you kept the stock shock with all the added weight though. 2 water pumps and head bearing in 90k of abuse aren't too bad.

The clutch, gearbox rebuild (bearing went), fuel injectors, cam chain tensioners, fuel pump is less good though. What do you reckon caused some of these. Dodgy fuel for the fuel pump and injectors?

What do you mean by intake hose? The intake manifold? If so, that happens across bikes but still dodgy how prone to damage they are. Wonder if that is because of them drying out.

__________________
Tacos Tyring Travels.com

Considering the mileage/conditions/ load, that is good service Bob.

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Well, I’m still pretty sure that the F650 has practically no parts from China. So I feel that the statement is false.
The X-serie will be (or is) produced in China and the G450 in Taiwan but that doesn’t matter for the quality of the old 650.
I agree that the parts from China can be as good (or bad) as parts from Europe – it’s BMWs quality-control (or lack of) which decides this.
It should be interesting to see how the new F650 and F800 will do. I’m afraid that they will not be as good as the old airheads, time will show.



I think we are getting closer to the real issue here. Yes, BMW is more expensive then the Suzuki but it also lasts a lot longer.
When a BMW has 100kkm on the clock you can still sell it for 30-60% of what you gave for it without doing a major overhaul first. That makes owning a BMW cheaper then most other bikes.
A friend of mine will start to rebuild a 650 with 140kkm on the clock. He will not rebuild the engine because cylinders and rings are still within tolerances and the cylinder head looks good. He will rebuild it because he wants a custom built bike with great suspension and a 1000km petrol range.

For me it’s out of the question to buy a bike with an estimated lifespan less then 150kkm. My current bike has 193kkm on the clock (but it was rebuilt at 180kkm).

I think Patrick has summarised the difference between the BMW and Suzuki 650 bikes very acccurately and IMHO his views of the respective customers [and the way they treat their bikes] is spot on as well .

BMW charges a premium for their bikes based on their "perceived quality" , sadly this seems to be lacking these days .
Suzuki markets their bikes on the basis of "value for money" , they seem to do rather well .

Suzuki has extended warrantys that will match BMW .

It has been suggested that there are more BMW s enroute at the moment than Suzukis , which may well be true , but it's very hard to be accurate and I would suggest that ,if it is true,it's because BMWs are more readily available on the European market .

Resale values will only be significant for lightly used bikes , any bike that has gone RTW will be shagged out and worth very little .
If you are borrowing money to buy your bike and trading it in every couple of years then resale will be important to you .

All bikes have faults and a sympathetic, knowledgeable rider will be able to work around them. I think what has let BMW down ,in this respect , is that less skilled and knowledgeable riders have bought expensive BMWs expecting them to perform flawlessly .
This can cause riders to be overcritical .

Old buggers like me , who prefer older simpler bikes , would hardly give a second thought to fixing some of the "problems" that seem to cause some people so much anguish .

__________________
Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light. - Spike Milligan
"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

It's human nature to complain, less so to praise.

I've had nothing but exemplary service from the five BMW dealers I've put my bikes into.

During the 80,000km and two years of ownership of myfrst R1200GS I had a couple of warranty issues but I have to admit they were really down to my ill-treatment of the bike.

The current R1200GSA has 48,000km on the clock. I've just returned from a 12,700 km return trip to Senegal. Absolutely no problems, I didn't even have to top up the oil.

Tim

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

I ride with a few BMW dealer mechanics and one head service writer. You guys (and gals) simply would not believe the things their customers come up with to complain about .... and demand be fixed under "warranty'.

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!