Ted,
As quastdog mentioned, why should they bother with such preconceptions?

I did have some hopes that this thread could bring some objective feedback on the topic, but I have now given up on that aspiration. As a contrast, there is a KTM thread that is streets ahead of this one in meeting this aim, for the 640 Adv:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...lems-list-9345
It contains information from those who own, or have owned, these bikes, unlike the majority of posts on this thread.

Regrettably, I think that this "crap" thread has missed the chance - it needs to lie fallow (die in the ditch basically) and, in due course, some more structured, objective feedback may be available:-
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...-threads-33390
IMO, this development will be quite important for the HU webpages: hopefully it will succeed.

For specific information about the F650 you could do worse than go to the chain gang (as referenced in an earlier post) or the UK equivalent:-
BMW F650 (UK)
Both of these have contributions from actual owners (or they are all bluffing!).

Lastly, while all the BMW F650GSs in South America are breaking down and providing grief for their owners, in the rest of the world they are doing just fine:-
Adventure.gs - The very best experience in motorcycling training and touring.
Just one more example of a real owner with specific feedback on his bike.

I hope those links help your mate to make up his mind.

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Dave

I completely agree.

It's very tiring to have this comparison and people getting all fired up like they're talking about which football team is better. Brand loyalty really scares me sometimes.
Like I said on the first round on the circle of this thread, not all of these claims are clear as to what the basis of the information is.
'ABS, leaking seals, water pumps knackered and the headlamp sub frame breaking through fatigue' All but the headlamp sub frame (hate to think what happened to that bike as I've never heard of that one but a little welding easily takes care of that one) are well known, and if you have a little knowledge of maintaining your own bike shouldn't need professional help. If you get caught without the spares for those issues, you deserve to wait forever for them.

I'm not sure what type of traveler are found in SA (there are many kinds), but I'm starting to think a lot of people who think a bit to lightly about a trip like this and expect a stock BMW can do the job. Awesome marketing from BMW, but if a customer believes everything they get (s)told we're in trouble.

From my experience, no stock bike can do this, and all need preventative measures to known issues. Hence, can we stop mentioning things like water pump, fork seals and ABS (who needs it anyway) as it's kind of like saying:'Oh my god, my chain is all worn' and don't add to this thread (Walkabout, I have some hope still we can fix this thread). When they get mentioned I'm thinking the owner might not really know what they are doing. And when mentioning electrical issues, can we get a bit more specific? Side stand switch, voltage regulator (not sure why I keep motioning this one as I rarely hear of a failing one), etc. So again we can sift through the known issues and get a better idea. And even then, maybe a little background of what might have caused it. Lots of crashes, un-ordinary vibrations, exposure to salty water, drowned, etc. Reason why I say this is that we had issues with our ignition and switch gear on the Tenere after rainy days, so now we cover them up each night with the poncho. Problem solved. Maybe a few questions you could ask those guys at Dakar Motos Ted. I think I might be repeating myself here.

I haven't taken this bike out for a big trip yet, but also as mentioned am doing a ''lot'' of work on it to prevent known failures, protect things and speed up maintenance. This work makes me very confident that short of what's inside the Rotax I know this bike inside out. That way I'm not at all fussed of a fracture in the headlight frame, fork seals and ABS.

10 or so bolts plus the body parts and you're at the headlight frame. That probably is quite a bit more than a DR, XT, XL, XR, KLR (not the new one) but not than a Tenere fairing which was a royal pain. How do I know? I actually took it through 13 time zones. The amount of times I didn't have to take that tank off. And off course it's always full.
I'm not saying this to jerk myself off, but just because who needs this stressed thread if there is no un-circumstantial evidence.
I like to think this forum was set up to provide constructive information about overland travel with you own transport, mainly a motorbike. Something the KTM thread provides.

Oh, and while we are talking about this, could we all please be more specific in the Description of your current trip, or a major trip section our profiles? Or is this not public viewable? It can’t take to long to write maybe to and from or the distance traveled maybe. It really helps to assess the persons background and put a bit of context on the reply, dig, comment, opinion, etc.

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Tacos Tyring Travels.com

So if a thread about "your" bike points out its faults you take your "toys" and go home? hmmmmmmm?

I've seen plenty of objective feedback. How much documentation do you need? How specific do you want to get before you take someone's account as credible? This thread, seems to me, is not the definitive, objective tome about the F650. It's merely a casual observation of what a couple travelers' have observed. Like most threads, others chimed in. Are they not free to do so?

Ted is credible, so is Maria.

Perhaps a NEW thread is called for? Something like:
The Unbreakable F650 From Alaska To Usuhia
Be sure to include The Smelly Biker account! It's priceless!

I disagree. Many of the posters here own a F650 or have owned BMW's and some have given a thumbs up on the bike.

As for me, I have ridden and reviewed many BMW's including the F650.
The point is the majority of BMW owners I've met know next to nothing about their bikes, its history or model evolution. Most let dealers do servicing. RTW folks are a bit different. (but not for long)


Patrick
Not On The Road

__________________
Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

I've been riding and skipped over a few or more posts before making this one.

If you go on long trips, especially ones involving a lot of off road riding, there are few smarter choices in bikes to make other than those you can fix yourself, or those that can be fixed by a basic mechanic shop. It's actually very simple.

Expectations are our own, as are most of the problems we incur.
Self sufficiency is a choice, and even made blindly, it's still ours.

Did your Pod skip a note, the paleteria hasn't your favorite sprinkles?

It's only the foolish who do not deal well with the inconveniences.

2 water pumps, 1 ignition coil, 1 clutch, 4 sets of wheel bearings, 2 sets of head bearings, 1 stock shock rebuild, 1 gearbox rebuild (bearing went), all the touratech stuff broke, 5 chain/sprocket sets, intake hose, 3 fork seals, 2 fuel injectors, 5 clutch cables, handlebars, 4 cam chain tensioners, lost count of broken mirrors, cant be bothered to count brake pads, 1 fuel pump.... other stuff I've forgotten.

90000 miles of bad roads, drowned in rivers, riding salt lakes, hit by cars, dropped countless times, overloaded, fed bad fuel and sat on by fat people.

After all its taken me through I cant complain and after a bit of TLC it'll be ready for the next ride. :-)

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Missing, presumed fed.
https://youtube.com/@ChileBob

I was waiting for you to join in. Now we need some of the other long timers like Renedian to share some of there feedback.

The wheel bearings, head bearings, stock shock rebuild, chain/sprocket sets, fork seals, clutch cables, handlebars, broken mirrors and brake pads are wearible items.

Interesting how you kept the stock shock with all the added weight though. 2 water pumps and head bearing in 90k of abuse aren't too bad.

The clutch, gearbox rebuild (bearing went), fuel injectors, cam chain tensioners, fuel pump is less good though. What do you reckon caused some of these. Dodgy fuel for the fuel pump and injectors?

What do you mean by intake hose? The intake manifold? If so, that happens across bikes but still dodgy how prone to damage they are. Wonder if that is because of them drying out.

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Tacos Tyring Travels.com

Sorry for the late reply, been doing stuff.

Consumables that get consumed dont really count as problems, so not bothered about them - especially mirrors ;-)

Intake hose - the rubber pipe thingy that connects the throttle stub to the cylinder head. That split in Brasil & I'm guessing was caused by using crap fuel with alcohol in it as thats not very kind to rubber parts. Bad/dirty fuel is probably what killed the fuel injector so cant cry foul for that.

Camchain tensioners - it seems to eat these, not sure why. Maybe its just a badly made/designed part. Its a 10 minute job to change it, problem is getting the part.

Fuel pump - again, could've been dirty/bad fuel but I've heard from others who've had the same problem. Some say that if you run the tank dry the pump takes a beating & dies, athough I've only done that a couple of times.

The only thing I was really pissed at was the gearbox bearing - the damn thing fell apart and that just shouldnt happen, it was a right pain to sort that mess out.

__________________
Missing, presumed fed.
https://youtube.com/@ChileBob

It's easy to become spoiled, and it's slow mental seduction - gotta have the best there is for our needs. Screw reality and compromise....we're spayshel...

Filing contacts on the old bikes was just part of the deal, not something to rant about. And nobody really cared about their shocks. Did the bike run? If so, we're cool...and ride.

What conveniences are expected? This can mess up your mind.

Was cheese left off of your burger?

Personally, I think the newish F650 will go most anywhere, if you're willing to deal with its weaknesses. To believe the fantastic BMW marketing is true ignorance.

Your Momma can be programmed into your phone as #1 on speed dial, just in case you aren't as happy as you should be when the unexpected happens. Did you get wet? Has it been a bit dusty? Was there no hotel room that met your standards? Is yout tummy upset?

Have a pleasant trip.

When I put my first post on this I was a bit upset with my bike (And with BMW!). Well, very upset in fact! I am sorry by the way if some here got a bit annoyed by this!

Most problems I had on my bike were self inflicted (bad maintenance from previous owner), shoddy repairs at shoddy workshops (including BMW!) or caused by my own ignorance.

Few bits are not too good on this bike. Plastic bits will fall or desintegrate ( like the front and back mud guards...) better just remove them.
The master cylinder came stuck on both bikes. The VR and water pump are notoriously unreliable. The rear shock (in the standard GS) is not done for that sort of abuse, I replaced mine and that one has been superb so far. The acid battery will dry up (especially in hot weather) very quickly due to the fact the oil tank is next to it. Next time I will buy a gel battery and this should resolve it.
I have problems with the electrics, nothing major but annoying. But then we did thousands of kms of corrugated very bumpy roads, millions of giant potholes .... the bikes have taken an incredible amount of abuse, so I will need to get all the wiring checked when back in the UK. However the Dakar electrics are fine.

My husband´s Dakar has had very few problems so maybe I was unlucky with mine. The engine is VERY GOOD in my opinion.

The bike is tough (with exception of mentioned flimsy plastic bits) and will keep you going as long as you keep an eye on the weak points mentioned.

There is no perfect bike, the F650GS is not a bad bike and will do the job. It will get through most difficult terrain.

Ah yes and one last advice, never EVER EVER trust any one to work on your bike unsupervised (by you!) in south america, including main dealers of any brand (with the exception of Javier in Buenos Aires! He is very good!) because that will cause so many problems ....

__________________
Maria

www.franglais-riders.com

Considering the mileage/conditions/ load, that is good service Bob.

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Patrick passed Dec 2018. RIP Patrick!

Rode around Australia, New Zealand and Tassie on a F650 - 1994...a few minor problems.
Left Belgium with 50.000 km on it and did about 40.000 km. Only head bearings were changed & minor carburator problem. For the rest normal things chains and sprockets, new tyres, etc.
Only 1 big thing but due to bad quality cooling water ; cylinderhead had to be changed ; crack at the height of the excaust. So very happy with this one.

Now september leaving for trip around Australia and I just bought a BMW F650 GS - 2004, only 1800 km...after reading all your posts...doubt a lot if this was a good decision. First was looking again for same back, old version, but less km (old one has 120.000 km).

Since I am so happy with the BMW F650...thought going to the GS version was a good decision.

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New Zealand, Australia & Tasmania - 2003 - 40.000 km on my own
Next: South America - sept 2008-march 2009

I mean off course South America is next trip and not Australia again!

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New Zealand, Australia & Tasmania - 2003 - 40.000 km on my own
Next: South America - sept 2008-march 2009

Yup, you're right, I forgot about some things, its all a blur....

The radiator got hit by a rock before I realised making a guard was a good idea, a bit of wire mesh & some tie-wraps would've saved me a lot of $$.

Swingarm & suspension bearings dont last forever, the rusty bits of metal that fell out when I thought it was time to grease them was a surprise.

Chain hub bearings, on my third set of them. Noticed a deep groove worn in the spacer between bearing & swingarm, allowing water/grit to sneak in and that was causing the problem. Shame that part is made from monkey-metal, needs to be stainless steel.

Batteries are a consumable - I've been on the road since 2003 & now on my fourth battery so no complaints. A 12 Amp Hour made a big difference.

No frame/subframe cracks or shock mount problems. The bolts that hold those things together leave a lot to be desired, grade 12 hardened bolts are easy enough to find. :-)

Lamda sensor died at around 60k, which isnt too bad. It had a new ignition coil at the same time, thought that'd failed but the problem was just Uyuni salt in the wiring so now I have a spare.


So yes, things break, but after all its taken me through I reckon its done a great job.

__________________
Missing, presumed fed.
https://youtube.com/@ChileBob