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21 Oct 2007
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Still gotta love it. Even if it's ugly.
Well, I hope I don't have to fear 30 some-odd bad parts, or I will be bear meat somewhere north of 60.
I do need to make it clear that my dealer service has been and still is exceptional, I have no problem with access and honest dialoge behind, or in front of the service counter. We may disagree on a diagnosis, but once the answer is in I end up riding away on a great working machine with zero out-of-pocket costs.
The whole discussion centres around why I need to be in front of the service desk in the first place. It seems to me that the BMW factory is content to shoot itself in the foot, year after year, when it comes to known faults that just shouldn't be.
It's somewhat sad really, especially after riding a K bike all over N.A. with zip for problems. If someone were to ask me today what I think of the R1200GS Adv.- today...I'd need a moment of pause to choose some careful words.
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24 Oct 2007
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[QUOTE=Stu Seaton;155052] I suppose low end torque is the same as high end torque depending on how it's measured. Low end torque could be manifested by a perfect wheelie, unfortunately my high end torque is measured in clutch slip these days. QUOTE]
I think the main difference between the two is that the one is short lived and the other happen over a much longer duration.
With the wheelie there might be some slip but unnoticeable, and while at high speed the slip will first be unnoticeable at first but as this slip starts to heat up the clutch the slipping will become worse to the extent that you will realise something is wrong. My experience of clutch slip on a bike has been the same, at about 110km and accelerating hard the bike will suddenly pick up revs into the red-line but the speedo is still hanging around the 110km/h mark. But at low speeds or pulling away under hard acceleration the clutch seemed to be fine.
One more thing, if I know that a dealer wheelies my bike I will never go back there again.
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17 Nov 2007
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Ready to fly
Gents: I have been informed that my Teutoic Tin is ready for pick up, all is fixed at no charge. God bless BMW warranty and one fine technician, regardless of wheelies (besides, I know this bloke and if he pops a wheelie on my bike I'd go "cool, do it again, but show me this time").
I know I bluster about the GS RTW ability, (Margus) and I still have serious questions about design, factory and reliability issues... but as far as I can see BMW warranty is bar none the best in the world. Maybe I need to offset my chagrin of reliabilty issues with the warranty that backs up the advertisments.
Now, I can look forward, next stop is Inuvik, North West Territories. Will I end up as bear skat on the Dempster, or shall I pop a cork upon my return in Toronto? Bets anyone? The GS 1200 Adventure is probably the nicest bike I have EVER ridden. Now let's see if the next 21,000 K offer worry free riding full of exploration and roads less (seldom) travelled.
Our lifestyle is the best in the world, isn't it?
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19 Oct 2007
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I agree Mollydog
Thanks for the nod, I've been around machinery all my life and recognize when something doesn't "feel" right. The jury's out until Nov. on the clutch, but I expect it will be a re and re.
The discs are a bit of a head scratcher. As I noted I do a whack of highway running, my choice cage or bike, but the road remains the same, therefore - bike. Braking is minimal, I leave my driveway and I'm clear and free @ 80K, two right handers and I'm on a series 400 highway (originally designed as unlimited but now posted at 100KPH...tears...) so to say that I'm always on the brakes is hokum. My pads look like new and this issue starts right from the git go. I thought it was pads seating but noooo. Go figure.
The real issue is why does a premium bike, premium $$, premium marquee have these issues? It honestly staggers me. As far as I can see there is no excuse. I've been reading other threads, they all seem convincing but lets be conservative here. If I was to discount 75% of what I read that still leaves a huge error. I should have stuck with the K bikes and perhaps bought a...what? Also... I really want to go north on a GS Adv., cause I like riding it! Pardon me whilst I pout.
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19 Oct 2007
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Warranty
BTW in the Great White North it's 3 years bumper to bumper. Thank God.
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19 Oct 2007
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offtopic, but essential
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
And tech's should never, under any circumstance, be doing wheelies on a customer bike.
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Mollydog once said BMWs can't wheelie, remember?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
BTW, the R12 is a much nicer bike than either the 11 or 1150GS. (Margus, if you'd like a copy of my reviews I'm happy to forward them to you....!  ) |
You write for bike magazines?  If so I'd be very much interested getting that article, to know which mag you write for and your full name, so I can warn other people to read with caution, since the author shows some signs of "schizophrenic" symptoms with excessive anti-BMW bias, myth distribution and never-stopping bashing, which is a bit too surprising coincidence for a mag writer, IMHO anyways. Or your speciality is the gossip column?
Anyways, send me a PM or e-mail copy of that article, if possible, please.
Re: 1200. I agree, I've said here before it's a big progress for BMW in terms of performance and agility, as it is supposed to be over the bikes made in the last century. But proven reliability and simplicity on older boxers make them still favorable traveling companions for some people, especially to those who like to work on their bikes their own, me included.
I'll be hearing from you soon then.
Best, Margus
Last edited by Margus; 21 Oct 2007 at 07:10.
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18 Oct 2007
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Hello again Mollydog.
I see BMW bash-club still holds strong ground? Take off your jap-roundels first before you post.  I've had modern jap bikes and I know their strong and weak ponts. Look around how many problems jap bikes have had in their section first, then start searching your "tar-drop in honey pot" in BMW section to start another of your typical BMW bash session while you've never owned modern a BMW yourself, and your only excuse to bash is based on "seeing in person" etc gossip reasons, while I've seen jap engines simply seize in person too. Does it mean it counts?
To Stu: I don't know much about the new 1200s, about their gearboxes and how you change gears. A bit surprising is clutch, where clutch itself is very similar to the older 11xx like I have, since yours is hydraulically operated then very probably wrong amount of oil (parallel to small freeplay on cable clutches that burn out clutches on any bike). This gives me clue what happens in the garage of your BMW dealer - if you aren't that fed up with BMW and want to continue with the bike, then I'd say change your dealer or start servicing the bike your own even better.
Good luck indeed, Margus
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollydog
Be patient Stu, Margus will be along any time now to tell you are are a liar and to stop making up untrue myths about BMW.
Perhaps he'll tell you you've abused the bike and not taken proper care of it? He's told me all my Jap bikes are junk and fall apart shortly after purchase....even though I've owned about 40 of them with very few probs. I've owned BMW's too and ridden every GS since 1980, but never an Adventure.
According to Margus, your probs are nothing but "rumors" and "inuendo", at least that's what he keeps telling me when I relate nearly identical stories to your's that I've SEEN, IN PERSON, on the many rides I do with my BMW riding buddies.
He thinks I'm a liar and I make stuff up....geez, I guess I better start taking more pictures of breakdowns. Actually, BMW problems have been few in the last three years or so. Early ('04/'05) R12GS's did have issues, and most all the 1150's before them, but the latest R bikes have been pretty good. RT's too. But not perfect.
I go on BMW dealer rides where from 20 to 40 riders show up....on (you guessed it) BMW's, with a few Triumph's in the mix and a few Brand X bikes as well. The dealer has its own "Sag Wagon" as well.
So maybe you did get a Friday bike, or maybe the Turkish workers in Berlin were pissed off about something that week? 
I would hang in with your bike if you like riding it but I would begin writing letters NOW to BMW about what the machine's history has been so far. I really like the R12GS, I like the way it rides. Very sporty, confidence inspiring,
fast and you can really load it up and it still goes good. But I'm not fond of shaft drive, paralever or tele-lever....but millions seem ok with it and it seems to work OK most of the time.
In California, and some other US states, we have "Lemon Laws" which can sometimes cover multiple breakdowns/repairs. No idea about Canada. If they do have some program for this, I would research it just in case.
A good friend had a brand new 1150GS which was in the shop so many times in the first year that BMW N.A. offered a full refund (this is VERY unusual) without the owner ever having to contact a lawyer or even mention this. They just told him they would either give him a new bike or his money.... They never could solve the bikes many problems which seemed to cross over to cover many systems...one being, the bike had INCORRECT pistons in it. Two dealers were involved with this. The GS in question was crated up and sent to Germany...on orders from BMW N.America along with every original part. No word beyond that.
That friend now rides an FJR1300, has 7 or 8 other bikes....NO BMW's among them, but does have two KTM dirt bikes...his favorites over all.
Best of luck,
Patrick  |
Last edited by Margus; 18 Oct 2007 at 07:24.
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18 Oct 2007
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Sad story!
The first thing that comes into my mind is that when the input-seal on the gearbox broke it leaked a bit oil on the clutch. Do you know if your clutch got checked when they changed the seal? I guess not, because it’s not possible without taking the clutch apart.
A friend of mine had problems with the same seal a few months after he bought the bike, but it has worked well since (60kkm+)
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18 Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliBaba
Do you know if your clutch got checked when they changed the seal? I guess not, because it’s not possible without taking the clutch apart.
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Good guess!
On 11xx boxers you can observe some part of the clutch by taking starter off (very easy job, just two bolts). If it's a visible leak then there should be some oil spilled on the clutch plate corners or on the casing walls nearby.
1200 boxer has the clutch casing closed from the starter side?
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18 Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margus
Good guess!
On 11xx boxers you can observe some part of the clutch by taking starter off (very easy job, just two bolts). If it's a visible leak then there should be some oil spilled on the clutch plate corners or on the casing walls nearby.
1200 boxer has the clutch casing closed from the starter side?
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I guess you can do the same visual inspection on the 1200 as you can on the older ones but if the clutch only slips at high momentum situations (like passing a car in high gear) it might be only small stains of oil on the plate. It is possible that the mechanic cleaned away the rest of the oil.
But I agree, it’s smart to remove the starter and check before you tear it apart!
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18 Oct 2007
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My Friday afternoon build. Maybe, sorta, could be...
Thanks Guys, I'm heading to the dealer right now, well as soon as some fog lifts, you can't see your hand in front of your face at the moment, not a good mix between me and some seriously deranged cage pilots.
My driveline issues were not the only ones I have with this machine, although BMW are absolute champions in the warranty biz. OEM fog lights needed a new control package and the bike had to be completely reprogramed, at least that's what I'm told. They didn't work from the day I picked the bike up. There is a 'day one' vibration from one (both??) of the front discs that is now becoming very pronounced at any speed. I thought it was just pads seating in, guess not. Aside from one putt around some very dry grass covered trails the machine has not seen dirt, I still have road tires on it. I'll pass this little gem on this morning to the tech. The last grind - and you'll call me nuts on this one is the alignment... no guff. When I'm rolling along I can look at the top of my down tubes and they don't line up with anything, they're on an angle. I looked at the body work to see if there was a variation one side to the other but I can't see anything that makes sense. The machine appears to run straight, I even had a buddy run it down the road and I followed behind to see if something looked cockeyed. It didn't, but it just pisses me when I see things that are not plumb and true, this is a BMW and that fact is reflected in the $$. Things should be straight darnit. Now before anyone goes "You crashed it!" I did knock the bike over once, in my driveway, I was doing about 0.25 KPH. Very embarrassing...loose gravel and a depression that exceeded the draft of my foot... oops. I dopped my LT in the exact same spot too, you'd think I'd fix that little divot eh?
The long and short of this vent is that by all accounts the GS is a true RTW machine, but that vision is erroding with each trip to the shop and that just sucks because I really don't want to be let down in the far north where bears enjoy "crunchy on the outside - soft and juicy on the inside" motorcyclists. On the plus side when things are right the machine is a dream to ride, seating, performance, handling etc. But then again, so was the tilt and load truck that picked me up the last time...
I'll keep you posted on what happens today.
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I agree Mollydog
