I also think that pleasure is an issue. For me it's much more fun to ride a bigish powerful bike, 50.000 km on a single cylinder bike doesn't sound like my kind of fun - but people are different.


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With much less experience than many of the contributors, I am trying a approach with this type of pleasure in mind.
I have a 2006 1200GSA that I took half way around Australia with 55kgs worth of gear including hard panniers. The few times I went off road were scary, based on the weight and my lack of experience.

Using the expertise of the Ultralight community (backpackers/cyclists/others on the Hubb), I have reduced my gear to under 20kgs. I have replaced the battery, replaced the rear rack and rear seat with a plate and gone for Giant Loop soft luggage, also replaced the stock muffler. This reduced my weight by 22kgs before gear! All up saving of 44kgs!

I have sufficient gear to do a RTW trip (minus food and water) and my bike is around the standard weight for a GSA of 260kgs fully packed. While that is still a heavy bike, I am trialling it with that setup around some harsh Australian off-road in The Kimberley (WA). I am not in an enduro race and I don't need to push myself to extremes, but I do enjoy some fun off road and so far I have traversed deep and sometimes wet red sand, knee deep creek crossings, corrugated and stoney roads and the bike has handled it all easily. I can happily skip across some gnarly roads at 100km/h with ease. Yes I've come off but a standard GSA is not that heavy to pick up for me, so no big deal so far.

I rode 9000kms on tarmac to get here and the same bike is handling this terrain, all with comfort, tons of power and ease.

I also have a Yamaha XT600 that I used to regain my riding skills on. Great bike, but would not have considered it for a minute to do what I have done on the GSA. It was hard work to ride over 100km/h on the highway and never felt as stable as the GSA in any conditions. That was without gear.

In summary, A large bike with very light gear is my choice. I'm sure the 800GS would be equally capable with light gear and significantly less total weight than the 1200.

Question to all: How many of you weigh all your gear and know exactly the weight you are carrying?

Well done !

As previously noted - the GS is no lightweight. It's academically close to the GS and actually weighs more than a KTM 950/990 with significantly less power and very marginal suspension off-road.

I use a very accurate fish scale - total weight now just under 20kgs of gear, parts, tools, etc.

My plan is to do far too many kms this summer. It's about the last way I like to travel but time demands cannot be changed and neither can Siberian nor high-mountain weather !

My KTM ADV is just about 200kgs with fuel and gear. Soft bags, no racks, elimination of OEM battery, 2-1 exhaust, etc - a lot of weight has come off.

It's STILL heavy and at the same time lighter and more composed (by leagues) than either a GS1200 or GS800 offroad on which I will be alot, alone.

But once I am hemmed in by roads again . . . a much lighter bike would be awful for the necessarily long distances.

I'm with Walter, philosophically - pick the bike for 90% of your riding. But on rides eclipsing 10,000kms, nevermind RTW, that's not much guidance. 90% of time ? 90% of distance ? 90% of difficulty ?

So . . . from the backpacking community - take the smallest pack you can live with because you'll ALWAYS fill it.

I think the 950 is about as small as could be done (!) for my current ridiculous goal(s) . . . but I still wish I could find another 30 kgs to remove. Especially in the middle of Siberia, solo.

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Orange, it's the new black.

It's such a grey area isn't it...

So.. Pick a bike that you do 90% of your riding on !!! In the U.K. I do 99% tarmac.... So should I ride a fireblade to Siberia ??

I know that's not what you meant but here's my point.....

I love to travel with a lightweight bike which is more off-road capable. And 95% of my travelling is on paved roads....Sure, I'm stuck doing 70 mph on the highways but that's always a bonus in hindsight. Going slower, you really do smell the roses. But that's not my point either.

If you have a smaller, lightweight bike then you aren't restricted physically or mentally when you have an unforeseen opportunity.

Eg... When I was in Africa most of the best places to camp or stay were down on the beaches, on lake-sides or up on mountain tracks. On the map, all of these places are close to well paved roads.

I met so many riders on big, heavy bikes that couldn't/wouldn't make that short 5 mile detour of off-road and they ended up staying at the stinky hostel in the next village.

Their bikes were capable but it would of been a stressful challenge and not easy and after a long day on the road. The mental challenge of a daunting dirt track on a 260KG bike just didn't appeal. It wouldn't have to me either.

Blasting off down an unknown dirt path on a 650 Single ain't no bike deal is it !!!

It would be the theme............. All the big GS'S parked up outside hostels/hotels watching SKY News in a hotel bar and all the lightweight knobbley tyred bikes were sleeping on the lakeside, looking at the stars with the sound of hippos grunting in the distance.

THAT'S my point...

Even if you plan to do most of your trip on tarmac (and most of us do), having the bike that can EASILY do rough tracks and sand really opens up your possibilities to experience the things that you left home see.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Well, people have different opinions but I think most of the best places in Africa are far from paved roads. They might be days, and some times weeks from the paved roads. Personally I stay away from the paved roads as much as possible. That's when range is necessary. Chris Scott once mentioned that fuel is range and water is time, I like both.

BTW:
I'm leaving to the southern parts of Norway now and will be offline for a few days. My family is in a car and will be there in four hours, I will drive the backroads and gravel and will use 12 hours. Maybe a lot more if this night extreme weather (called Geir) have messed up my route.
It's far better with 12 hours of fun then four hours of boredom.

I don't need to carry water this time

Absolutely...... And they're the places you will very rarely see anything apart from 4x4's and smaller off-road capable bikes.

I wouldn't drag a fat 1200cc bike too far from the road. I just can't be bothered with it. It's no fun and usually an accident waiting to happen.

Kudos to those who can be bothered.

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Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

No ... Pick a bike that is compatible with the hardest parts of your planned trip, even if that hard part is just 5% of your trip.

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This reminds me of earlier discussion which questioned the positions of the centres of gravity of bikes: I would fully expect that the CG of the big bike is lower than that of the 800, but I don't recall any definitive answer to the query.

A low CG assists greatly for those who find it easy to pick up a dropped 1200GS, not even taking into account that the 1200 bike doesn't go over fully onto it's side (in a simple drop, discounting more major spills) but just lies there on one of the pots. With some of the massive crash bars/outriggers that can be fitted to these the bike may not be at much more than 45 degrees to the horiz.

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Dave

Question to all: How many of you weigh all your gear and know exactly the weight you are carrying?[/QUOTE]

I use a 1975 R90/6, it weighs around 218 KG with around about 50% full tank.

Last year I weighed all my gear after coming back from a 6 week trip and was really shocked to see that I was carrying an extra 100 lbs weight! So I have switched from Krausers to Enduristan Monsoon panniers, with a single seat and have decided to be much more carefull about what stuff I take. I'm off again next week so may have time to do some weighing before I go, idea is to get luggage down to under 80ibs.

Changing from Ikon to Maxton shock absorbers saved 4ilbs alone!

Charles