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Bikes sell / want, South America Post your TRAVELLING bike for sale here. INCLUDE COUNTRY in subject, (e.g. 89 Transalp for sale, CA USA) and include currency in the post ;-) Please DELETE your post when the bike is sold. NOTE: DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK about the merits of any vehicle and the LEGALITIES of changing ownership and crossing borders.
Photo by Ellen Delis, Lagunas Ojos del Campo, Antofalla, Catamarca

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Ellen Delis,
Lagunas Ojos del Campo,
Antofalla, Catamarca



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  • 3 Post By xfiltrate
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  #1  
Old 6 Jan 2024
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Legal aspects to buying and selling bikes in South America

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyferretadventures View Post
The bike will not be registered or imported to Argentina at all. This is a U.S bike being transferred to another foreigner.
It is illegal to sell a foreign registered motorcycle having entered Argentina on a temporary vehicle import permit (TVIP). Transferring a title is another label for selling, so transferring a title of a foreign registered motorcycle having entered Argentina on a TVIP is illegal.

Elisa and I created a motorcycle parking business in Argentina in Buenos Aires in 2006 and are permanent foreign residents of Argentina. WE currently live in Argentina....

We have parked hundreds of foreign registered motorcycles and have encountered dozens of illegal schemes to "sell or transfer title to foreign registered motorcycles with TVIP" to another foreign tourist or to an Argentine. None of the schemes are legal.

*One of the many problems associated with illegally selling or transferring title of a foreign registered motorcycle having entered Argentina on a TVIP is the fact that if the motorcycle is involved in an accident, in Argentina or in any other country, that results in personal injury or significant property damage, the "legal" owner and the "illegal owner will both be held accountable because before paying liabilities, or bailing the rider out of jail, the company that insured the motorcycle will do a deep dive into the providence of the title of the motorcycle.

This means the illegal sale or transfer of the motorcycle will be discovered and will result in all insurance claims becoming null and void and possible charges levied against the legal owner and the illegal owner for the illegal title sale/transfer.

As experienced as I am, I know not having valid motorcycle insurance while riding South America is no big deal for a few thoughtless over landers. This is possibly because these riders do not understand what happens in South America if they are involved in an accident that involves personal injury or significant property damage.

First, more often than not, the police arriving at the accident scene do not have the training nor authority to determine guilt for the accident, so all operators of vehicles are arrested and go to jail. Based on my work with the IRC, many Latin American jails do not meet basic standards of sanitation, nutrition and/or proper treatment of prisoners.

Once incarcerated those who have insurance are permitted to phone their insurance company and eventually,..... after the motorcycle insurance policy is validated, an agent will show up at the jail and post bond, that is if a death is not involved. You will then be free until the date you are to present yourself before a judge who will determine guilt and penalties or not.

Without an insurance company to bail you out you will remain in jail until your court date. Your court date may be in six months, if you are lucky, it could be one or two years later. Sometimes the dockets of South America courts are so full you might really have to wait one to two years for a court date. If you are a citizen of the USA, do not expect your embassy to help much beyond making the phone numbers of decent local, generally very expensive, attorneys available, notifying your parents and notifying the IRC (International Red Cross) for possible wellness checks. Frankly, I do not know if wellness checks are still in the prevue of the IRC.

You will be isolated and on your own without valid insurance if the title to the motorcycle your own or are riding was illegally sold/transferred.

One more comment, there is no " No Man's Land" between borders. Example, at some crossings between Argentina and Chile the customs officials are many kilometers separate. In between custom officials you are either in the land of one country or the next country. There have been many rumors created and circulated by those who wish to sell foreign registered motorcycles with TVIP to a fellow tourist or to an Argentine but do not mention that an exit permit for the motorcycle in the name of the owner, is issued upon exiting Argentina and must be presented upon entering the next country.

Of course, photoshop exists and is utilized to fake titles without concern for the fate of the buyer once the faked title is exposed. Guys, I am not naive I know there are schemes out there that escape detection, and it is possible to ride South America without an accident. But I would not bet on either.

Argentina and most other South American countries have upgraded border ingress and egress computers - it is not like it used to be when Elisa and I rode South America in 2004. So why create stress and possible problems when you could be enjoying your ride? Keep it legal. I have personally visited over landers incarcerated for fake tiles.

As always, I am available for specific questions here or via PM.

* Before you ask, the "loophole" is the fact that insurance companies are obligated only to cover damages
created by bikes legally" operated in Argentina/Chile/Peru/Bolivia/etc. If the "buyer" is not the actual owner of the motorcycle but has procured title to the motorcycle through an illegal scheme, the insurance is automatically null and void due to the well exercised "loophole."
This could include, having in the name of the "owner"/ "buyer" proper registration and plates registered in the State or country where the bike is actually registered. This is easy to check with Motor Vehicle web sites in all States and countries. Many States require the "Buyer" to present himself/herself for registration and new title. Some States require proof of residency in that State in order to register a vehicle. Some States are more lenient , but with the advent of the threat of terrorism, all States have more stringent registration requirements because of new Homeland Security regulations. What does this mean? If you are not the "legal"owner, you may have trouble importing the motorcycle to the USA or other country. Forget shipping it!
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Last edited by xfiltrate; 6 Jan 2024 at 14:44.
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  #2  
Old 11 Jan 2024
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It is not like your Argentinian insurance company was ever going to pay out the claim anyway.

A lot of motorcycle travelers in this day in age, where it is considerably harder to make and save money are interested in the "most effective," way to use their resources.

Buying another traveler's motorcycle for $2-3000 US, versus the same bike from a local in that country for $6-7000 US may be a good option for that person.

I have not heard any horror stories about foreign travelers having at fault accidents and than getting locked up in South American countries for months of jail.

I think the South American countries have a vested interest in protecting the foreign tourists who are "visiting" those said countries and stimulating their economies.

The problem with TVIP's in South American countries is that they are only valid for 90 days. For most foreign travelers the 90 days is probably enough, but if you are a foreign traveler who wants to stay in that country for past 90 days you are better off paying double for the bike.
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  #3  
Old 13 Jan 2024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatogato View Post
It is not like your Argentinian insurance company was ever going to pay out the claim anyway.

A lot of motorcycle travelers in this day in age, where it is considerably harder to make and save money are interested in the "most effective," way to use their resources.

Buying another traveler's motorcycle for $2-3000 US, versus the same bike from a local in that country for $6-7000 US may be a good option for that person.

I have not heard any horror stories about foreign travelers having at fault accidents and than getting locked up in South American countries for months of jail.

I think the South American countries have a vested interest in protecting the foreign tourists who are "visiting" those said countries and stimulating their economies.

The problem with TVIP's in South American countries is that they are only valid for 90 days. For most foreign travelers the 90 days is probably enough, but if you are a foreign traveler who wants to stay in that country for past 90 days you are better off paying double for the bike.
With all the respect due gatogo's quote above I feel he has targeted my last post this thread, therefore I am compelled to respond. First, gogogo's inference that Argentine insurance company do not pay their legal liabilities on behalf of riders they have insured is not only wrong, but possibly libelous.
As I have pointed out, Argentine insurance companies are not legally responsible for damages or personal injury claims if the motorcycle insured was not legally operated in Argentina. Please refer to my previous post for a detailed explanation. It has been my experience that Argentine insurance companies pay their legal liabilities.

Second, difficult economic conditions do not waive agreements made when a foreign tourist imports a foreign registered motorcycle on a TVIP. If this were true one could argue that laws against burglary are waived when experiencing difficult economic conditions.

Third, if the motorcycle in question has been entered into Argentina on a TVIP it is illegal to sell it or buy it in Argentina. Foreign tourists can legally purchase a new or used Argentine registered motorcycle in Argentina. The exact steps for this process can be found on our web site, linked below.

Perhaps the IRC and the US Embassy should hire gotogo as a consultant for his proclaimed knowledge of foreign tourists in Argentine jails. I was employed by the IRC to report to the US Embassy US citizens I discovered in the prisons of another Latin American country. I found U S citizens who had been incarcerated and their incarceration was not reported to the U S embassy as required by international law. I assume in Argentina these arrests are reported to gotogo.

There were several reasons for this failure, not the least was corruption. With his intimate knowledge of incarcerated foreign tourists, further explanation is obviously not required, and it would be wonderful if gotogoto made his knowledge of the foreign inmate population of Argentina available to the US Embassy in Buenos Aires.

Fourth, foreign tourists have an obligation to obey the laws and regulations of countries they visit. Lastly, 8 month Argentine TVIPS have been issued in the past and are being issued upon request at certain borders.
Anyone who has been refused an 8 month Argentine TVIP, please post here.

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  #4  
Old 8 Feb 2024
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Legal aspects in Argentina

xfiltrate:

Thanks a lot for taking your time to share your knowledge.
Built up after many years in Argentina.

I is of very great value to get facts on the table.
Even if it hurts.
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  #5  
Old 8 Feb 2024
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Legal aspects in Colombia

Jeff at Colombia Motorcycle Adventures has descibed the buying process on his home page :

https://www.colombiamotoadventures.c...le-in-colombia


He has also written a book, that I recomend.
(As Kindle verson)

Jeff and Alan's Guide To Motorcycle Travel In Colombia



There he also mentions a couple of legal aspects.
I hope this is not against copy right. To publish this part.
===

Can I import a motorcycle to Colombia then sell it?

No. By law, foreign-registered motorcycles cannot be sold in Colombia. If you’re visiting Colombia with your own foreign-registered motorcycle, you can get a 90-day temporary import permit for the bike. The motorcycle needs to be out of the country when the permit expires. Remember, temporary import permits are precisely that: permission to bring your bike into the country for a short time only, on the promise that you will also take it out again

Can I buy a motorcycle in Colombia then sell it in another country?

Also no. You won’t be able to buy a motorcycle in Colombia and then sell it in another country. You can not buy a bike in Colombia and, for example, sell it in Argentina or the United States at the end of your trip. If you buy a motorcycle in Colombia to travel through South America you must come back to Colombia to sell it.
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  #6  
Old 9 Feb 2024
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Legal aspects of buying a bike in Peru

I do not know the details of the process in Peru.
It is ok to buy a bike, for a none resident
But from 2019, there is a law that makes it illegal to take it out from Peru.
Endless discusson about some border controls not checking, (to Argentina) work arounds and. Even if you should be able to pass a border control without beeing stopped. You have done something illegal.
But just becouse it is illlegal, maybe it is not impossible.

But can you return with a bike tha was smuggled out ?...

I have a friend that went there to buy a bike and tour SA.
But all these restrictions about leaving Peru, request to return within surtain time, or not be able to return at all.

She gave up and went to Mexico.
If the purpose had been to tour only Peru, there had been no problem.

Advice: Do you homework properly. And do not thrust marketing messages, that leaves parts of the information out.

==
You can aslo read in another thread about a person that spent months to try to get legally out of Peru. But gave up. And his vacation was destroyed.

Last edited by Erik_G; 9 Feb 2024 at 12:40.
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