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Which Bike? Comments and Questions on what is the best bike for YOU, for YOUR trip. Note that we believe that ANY bike will do, so please remember that it's all down to PERSONAL OPINION. Technical Questions for all brands go in their own forum.
Photo by George Guille, It's going to be a long 300km... Bolivian Amazon

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!

Photo by George Guille
It's going to be a long 300km...
Bolivian Amazon

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Old 8 Aug 2023
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Originally Posted by Threewheelbonnie View Post
According to the manufacturer or a 3rd party test ?

The problem in China is almost cultural. They lie. I'm yet to meet a Chinese supplier who regrets anything except getting caught. The driver has never been to supply the best casting/circuit board/brake chamber or the best value for money, but to do the least work for the most personal gain. Many a quality manager has openly told me this, which is perversely honest and entirely workable once known.

This is why there is a vast difference between a proper western brand made in China and something entirely Chinese. Set the task and measure sucess ( with personal financial rewards) of protecting the brand by making a good vehicle and the Chinese will do it. Leave them alone and they are yet to decide to (unless you were to expect Sym to share the cultural aspects, in which case "mainland China" will get there in 50 years time).

Comparison with India or Thailand is as crazy as including Munich or Detroit, unless you want to go back to Victorian times before Heinz, Kelloggs, Ford etc. decided to brand build.

Eventually a Chinese brand with limited experience of Japanese or Western longer term practices will do it. They'll stock parts, honour warranty etc. to build their brand. I'll let someone else find out if this company is the one. The fact they decided not to market it under some defunct western name encourages me.

The problem is definetively cultural, no doubt about. As long as quick profit can be done - everything goes. Some of the chinese products I have bought and I have seen others bought are simply so bad that it will be incorrect to call them junk. Its below that. Just saw a fb posting about an adjustable sidestand for a motorbike. It broke/fractured the first day!
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Old 8 Aug 2023
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Originally Posted by AnTyx View Post
Some of them look like they are getting there - I have heard very positive first-hand testimony from CFMoto owners.
I suppose one could point to Enfield as some sort of evidence that developing nations don't build good bikes without big-brand western backers pulling their strings, but even that venerable brand has vocal supporters. Equally we could look back 50 years to the taunts of "Jap Crap" from British bike owners... it only took about 10 years for the Japanese to wipe out the British bike industry, so why should anyone think the Chinese aren't willing or able to establish themselves as suppliers of motorcycles to rival anything on the market now?

OK they have started with a low cost mindset which does lead to corner cutting for the domestic market, but other Chinese products are already competing with the world's best (they are becoming dominant in the auto market outside Europe, let's not even get onto phones and IT) and they are technically capable and motivated to make something that occupies profitable "high end" markets not only the cheap end.

Write them off at your peril, and in the meantime a wise man will assess their products for what they are, not where they're built.
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Old 8 Aug 2023
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I've toured the BMW Factory in Spartenburg, South Carolina, several times. BMW has an interesting way of maintaining standards overseas. All the production and assembly equipment for all of the third party suppliers and also the overseas factory, is supplied by BMW, so the metal presses, the robot welders, the marriage gear (when engine/gearbox is mated with rest of vehicle), and so forth.

Not only does this allow standards to be maintained, it also ensures that news of model changes doesn't leak out of third parties or the overseas plant as the gear for the revised model is only delivered a couple of weeks before production starts.
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Old 8 Aug 2023
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I've sat on one in a showroom, it seemed ok but the gear shifter was solid so would get bent if dropped which put me off a bit. I later saw the same bike being used on a trail while I was walking my dogs, sounded nice and looked nice.

As for Chinese built bikes in general, I had an UM DSM Adventure for a bit and it was really nice. If the 200cc version was available in Europe I'd be on one of those TBH, the 125 needed a bit more torque for actual off-roading.
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Old 8 Aug 2023
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Originally Posted by Tomkat View Post
I suppose one could point to Enfield as some sort of evidence that developing nations don't build good bikes without big-brand western backers pulling their strings, but even that venerable brand has vocal supporters.

Write them off at your peril, and in the meantime a wise man will assess their products for what they are, not where they're built.
Enfield are pulling themselves up in terms of quality - they are not using big-brand western backers. Yes, there are a few niggles but there are with many, many motorbikes and brands.

As you have said, write them off at your peril.
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