I'll comment as well because I also have an 05 650 VStrom. I'm heading off to SE Asia in June and I'll be selling the Strom and taking my 8 year old BMW F650. The VStrom is a much better bike on the bitumen, more power, smoother motor, better road suspension, better fuel consumption but the BM feels a lot better on dirt/rough roads. I think the BM would suffer being dropped a lot better too, plus being carbed it'll be easier to fix if something does go wrong. Now none of this helps your decision because I haven't even ridden a Transalp just throwing my 2 cents in

__________________
Gone for a ride

Hi All,

I've got a question for all the Transalp guys: is it really suitable for a long two-up trip?

In the introduction part of this website Grant Johnson says that Transalps and KLR's are "generally out", but it seems that some of you guys find it ok for two-up trips.

I've got a '97 TA 600 and plan a trip with my girlfriend. I'm about a 100kg's and she's about 50-60kg's(I'm a dead man!). Do I need to make any adjustments to the suspension or anything else? We plan to stick to main roads as much as possible, but since it will be in Africa, anything is possible!

Thanks,
Namsa.

Being a Transalp rider myself Mollydog, you might be surprised that I agree with your assessment:

"The Transalp is a good, solid bike but its
10 years overdue for a total remake."

As a western road bike it is behind the pace. The DL will beat it on performance any day of the week.

But we are talking about overlanding here. Totally different. Outside the rich world both the bikes in question are huge beasts. The criteria for an overlander are unique. Performance is near irrelevant. This is why you see so many XTs, Transalps and Africa Twins as first choices for distance. Their ease of riding, bad-road ability and reliability shine as slow tourers.

NAMSA, I toured two up on a TA happily, but we are smaller than you; I needed new suspension. I would recomend a new rear spring. Most certainly for Africa.

Seeing as you already have the bike, you're almost all set. If you are happy now on it two-up at 40 to 50mph, you will be happy at those speeds in Egypt.

I think the TA is a near perfect two-up overlander. Bigger than you need for one, but for two, yes, the bike is a first class choice.

Simon

__________________
Simon Kennedy
Around the world 2000-2004, on a 1993 Honda Transalp

I agree 100%. Well put into words.

Unfortunately on this point i have to disagree. The 650cc isn't enough for serious two-uping. Riding two up means you have more luggage thus more mass. Having previously owned 600cc tourer for years and just ridden with fellow F650GS and us on R1100GS both two up in East-Turkey twisty bad condition mountain roads with bad dense traffic you see everywhere in South-Asia, quick overtakings can be VERY risky while another truck or car attacks you from behind leaving you no space and there's serious hazard while you'r acceleration is so low, especially going uphill. Also on difficult terrain, the weight difference between two-up and loaded bikes between 600+cc and 900+cc bikes becomes negligible, while the bigger bike just pushes itself through without using much gears and clutch. Bigger bikes have less gear chaning, less revving and less abusing due bigger engine has to carry the same mass, also engine stopping is better, making it considerably more comfortible to ride under huge load masses.

Also i can say sky-high positive words about the Telelever front suspension the twin GSes have that reduces the load mass on front from my long experiences having travelled two up full of luggage on both types of front suspensions - regular forks and telelever, and without any doubt i rate the telelever over the regular "diving" forks in terms of fully loaded bike two up any day of the week. It's very sad that only few innovative motorcycle companyes (BMW, Bimota, few experimental japanese models) are producing such load-dissipating front suspension technologies commercialy that is critical if driving with huge mass loaded on the bike while around 70+% of the mass is put on the front on braking. Indeed, most of bikes sold aren't ridden like that, so most manufacturers don't see the practical market need for such technologies.

ABS, shaft drive, more load-carrying (200kg load allowed for stock suspension), wide comfortible seat and better position for pillon, low centre of gravity etc are another story.

So there's a clear winner for me and that's my personal opinion if it comes to two-up adnventure travelling.

For soloing with less mass loaded and less power needed, i'd probably prefer some single cylinder bike like the F650GS Dakar, XR, KLR or smaller twin TransAlp like mentioned here, depending on budget.

[This message has been edited by Margus (edited 07 March 2006).]

Margus, how can you disagree with a person with first hand experinces? If a person find a bike both capable and comfortable? You do not have any experiences two up on a TA in Asia. And your "experince" with an gs650, a singel cilinder, i must say is irrelevant. A TA is probarbly stronger and faster than a GS650. I have not been two up on neither. And after all geting past is more about planning ahead than shear power. And in case you dont know gear change on a japaneese is smooth compared with the tractor like gear change on BMW ;-) so droping a gear to get past is no problem.

Frode



[This message has been edited by frnas (edited 08 March 2006).]

While the start of this thread does mention going 1 up, as opposed to two, for anyone looking at these two bikes for going two up, it may be worth noting that several bike magazines have noted that the v-strom has both some of the beast headlights (granted, you likely try to avoid going at night, but most cars can't match my v-stom lights) and also the most comfotable passenger seat this side of a touring bike. Very few bikes in the 650 range are designed to keep a passenger happy, but the v-strom bikes seem to do that quite well.

Matthew

Sorry guys, i'll try to keep my mouth more shut then in the future , just the thread it got into two-uping, where i have FIRST HAND experiences riding both 600 class tourer and bigger bikes. Just wanted to share my opinion - as i sayed, it's my personal opinion and you don't have to agree with it automatically. Why all the hassle?

Sorry Gringo, again i have to dissapoint you noting about your lack of technical knowledge, knowing nothing about relation of torque. I've previously owned a 600cc racing bike that generated 100 horsepower, more than any 1000cc tourer indeed and more than twice as big cc regular 1200 MotoGuzzi btw and it rus a lot faster, is better handling . But still, if i'd put that engine on a tourer frame it wouldn't make it a better tourer by any means.

Re: wrecking big twins? Point me out those cases in numbers compared with others where it has been the lack of bike's technical or driver's abilities please, other than someone else lunatic car or truck driver just kicks you out of the road, if you think you are that educated in traffic accidents, mr. Gringo?


Let me put it into numbers i recorded and point out the reason why i prefer telelever above regular: the telelever (in co-operation with ABS on some cases) saved me crashing 4-5 times (!) during my 17,000 kilometre long Iran expedition. Whether it was rainy day in dense city traffic in Romania, gravel in Turkey, free sand on tarmac in Iran, couple other cases in typical asian traffic chaos. In daily communiting with the same bike (doing more than 30,000km per 6-7 month riding season with all the bikes i've owned) i've been trhough many situations as well, and i do around 30-50% of it on gravel roads.

For sure you can adapt driving more slowly and carefully with regular fork equipped machine fully loaded and there are some cons for telelever as well, it isn't ideal on all conditions, but you never know what hazards are facing you and mostly they come when you don't expect them to, and there's the controlled braking that matters.

So in my experiences the telelever has proved considerably more trustworthy in hazard situations (especially with the ABS) and that's my personal opinion about it based my own experiences. Those who haven't had a long mileage experiences with both suspension technologies - please don't comment, we all can speculate what ever we want. Those who have by first hand, whether they agree or disagree, would be good to hear their stories and experiences about it - maybe start another thread about it? It already out of the bounds of this thread.

[This message has been edited by Margus (edited 08 March 2006).]

Sorry guys, i'll try to keep my mouth more shut then in the future , just the thread it got into two-uping, where i have FIRST HAND experiences riding both 600 class tourer and bigger bikes. Just wanted to share my opinion - as i sayed, it's my personal opinion and you don't have to agree with it automatically. Why all the hassle?[/B][/QUOTE]

Sorry, no hard feelings. I have deleted my harsh expresion in my former post. And pleas dont stop posting;-) Your read up un your Iran tour is exelent. The forum need more of this kind off post. Revealing the tru potensial of diffrent bikes. My point was/is:
1 Stick more or less to the subjekt. If the question is are a TA capable two upp bike, the answer is not no, only BMW. And that leads to number two:

2 Be les "my bike is the only one" all bikes have their positive and negative side. It is afterall a compromise.

Quite a few people here on the furum needs to get their feet on the ground when praising their choice of bike. And bee more modest in their answers, espesially answering on a bike they dont have first hand experiences on.
As an example a guy asked when is a xt shoot. And the answers poping up with links to 200 000 + teneres. But in my opinion none of the macines was true 200kkm macines. All had their engines opened one or seweral times and had major overhaul.
These kind of answers is misleading and the person asking may make a mistake based on theese.
In these internett times a feather often comes out as ten hens. example on these is BMW driveline failure. Africa Twins fuel pump, Honda rfvc heads cracking, BMW gearbox failure.
Either you mean your choice of bike is the best (hopefully)or crap, bee modest in the jugdement.

Frode

I can certainly vouch for the Transalp as an excellent two-up bike, we are currently crossing Asia on one. However if you are both large people, the passenger space may be a bit cramped. For us however, there is plenty of space, I am about 155lbs and my partner is around 115lbs.

As far as the power goes, the Transalp has more than enough, even fully loaded. I have always had plenty of power for passing or sudden manouvers. Not once on our trip have I wished for more power, even in Western Europe. Bigger engine=more fuel, don't forget that...

For two-up travel, the suspension should be beefed up, a stiffer rear shock is a must. Other than that, its ready to go!

------------------
Dave
www.mototrekker.com

__________________
Dave McMillan
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/tstories/mcmillan/

David:, word for word what I would have written, had I your grace and concision of expression.

The two-up question is wholly one of comfort, not power or overtaking etc.

The Transalp is the smallest "big" overland tourer. And small, in this world of cramped hotel entrances, single track roads and mountain passes, is beautiful.

Fact is, once you go two-up, off road ability is minimal. Thus almost any bike with decent clearance will be good enough.

So choose the one that
1. makes you happy,
2. won't break, and
3. doesn't cost much.

With this in mind, back to ignatieff's question (you still listening to this ramble mate?): the DL is perhaps *too nice* a bike for the trip. I hope this formulation makes sense, and can be appreciated by both the DL fans and the TA riders.

Simon

__________________
Simon Kennedy
Around the world 2000-2004, on a 1993 Honda Transalp

Hi Frnas
Because someone has experienced something does not automatically make their conclusions correct. Experience is highly subjective. In the past, people used to "experience" the sun going round the earth -it was obvious, wasn't it? This is not to deny "experience" but it needs to be supported. I suggest that Margus's various comments on this posting are in fact spot on, accurate and relevant, because he has offered facts to support his experiences, for us to consider and debate. I'm quite convinced now of the value and benefits of ABS and Telelever, though my bike has neither.

I run an Africa Twin which I like very much, but I will be the first to say it could be regarded as underpowered. For two people, with luggage on a long trip it would not be my ideal choice, but if I had nothing else - well, that would be OK, I'd do it anyway. The AT has many other excellent qualities, so I judge the bike on a balance of good/bad points, and I find it's a good machine. And as Margus says somewhere, money is a big factor. We're actually quite lucky nowadays to have so many excellent machines to argue over - it wasn't always so!

Good roads
Best wishes


[This message has been edited by denis brown (edited 10 March 2006).]

[This message has been edited by denis brown (edited 10 March 2006).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE>
quote:</font><HR><font face="" size="2">Originally posted by frnas:

Sorry, no hard feelings. I have deleted my harsh expresion in my former post. And pleas dont stop posting;-) Your read up un your Iran tour is exelent. The forum need more of this kind off post. Revealing the tru potensial of diffrent bikes. My point was/is:
1 Stick more or less to the subjekt. If the question is are a TA capable two upp bike, the answer is not no, only BMW. And that leads to number two:

2 Be les "my bike is the only one" all bikes have their positive and negative side. It is afterall a compromise.

Quite a few people here on the furum needs to get their feet on the ground when praising their choice of bike. And bee more modest in their answers, espesially answering on a bike they dont have first hand experiences on.
As an example a guy asked when is a xt shoot. And the answers poping up with links to 200 000 + teneres. But in my opinion none of the macines was true 200kkm macines. All had their engines opened one or seweral times and had major overhaul.
These kind of answers is misleading and the person asking may make a mistake based on theese.
In these internett times a feather often comes out as ten hens. example on these is BMW driveline failure. Africa Twins fuel pump, Honda rfvc heads cracking, BMW gearbox failure.
Either you mean your choice of bike is the best (hopefully)or crap, bee modest in the jugdement.

Frode
</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>

frnas
Keep on giving your views as you like. If people (like me ) disagree, well that's OK! Discussion is good.
Good roads!
Denis

=======================================
code in post fixed by Grant so it works


[This message has been edited by Grant Johnson (edited 10 March 2006).]

It was more than enough for Che Guevarra... And the modern VStrom 650 is bigger than and makes more horsepower than the R100 motor ever did. It handles better and is a lot more reliable.

I hear people tend to wreck those big BMW GS twins quite a bit. Do you know anything about that, Margus?

[This message has been edited by Flying Gringo (edited 08 March 2006).]</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Grongo

You should know that Margus has not "wrecked" any big BMW twins, actually. He was attacked by a lunatic driver, and he and Kariina were lucky to escape with their lives. Quite a different situation from what your words intended.

What do you do on your bike anyway? where do you go? Margus went from Estonia to Iran and back - you could ask him for advice on quality motorcycle trips - if you're nice.

Best wishes
Denis

Hi-

I would like to lend my opinion, though my experience is limited. I owned a single cyclinder KLR 650 which I took on a 9-day trip to Mexico. It was light and nimble, good on rough dirt roads, easy to throw around, and no worries if you drop it. However, it was not great fun on open highway due to vibration and getting pushed around in gusts. And while it would have survived two up duty, it would be much less than ideal. I now have a V-Strom 650 which I have only ridden locally. It is much smoother at highway speeds than the KLR. It would also have ample power for two up touring. However, it has a bulky feeling due to the large plastic fairing. The wind screen turbulence is there, but not the issue many make it out to be (all bikes seem to have some "issue" which gives their owners something to fret about). I think that the V-strom is very reliable too, as are most modern vehicles. So, I would go with the V-strom provided that you don't plan to ride difficult dirt roads. The V-strom could be fitted with knobby tires, crash bars, etc., if you plan on some riding on moderate dirt roads.