Good point about the BMW, the local KTM (UK) shop told me the 690 enduro want be availble until March 08

Thanks for the update; I have been giving the KTM dealers a miss for now, until they are nearer to announcing the Adv version - I suppose it won't be anytime soon as that is the delivery date for the Enduro.

__________________
Dave

Hi guys (my 1st post),
I've been meaning to come on HUBB fior a while and it's magic, I find a very relevant topic in no time.

I'm starting to have the same dilemma as you KiwiBruce.

I have been riding my Fazer600 for aprox 2 years now and have recently sorted it out for another year after almost putting my name down for a 650 Dakar.

But again, I can't understand why there is such a lack of twin cylinder dual purpose bikes with off-road potential but which will also cruise on a motorway if need be.

Having no off road expereince, I don't want anything too heavy.. I know I'll be riding mostly on road in the Uk still but woul dlike to ride roads like we saw on LWD in Ethiopia last time or up valleys in the Alps without tarmac.. not hard stuff but adventurous for me!

The big BMW's I tried (1150 & 12 GS) were great fun but the weight and size would worry me off road (esp alone), lugagged up. On road and touring, they'd be great!

Yep I know the 800GS will be one, but teething problems and price will be an issue, esp if one wants ANY extras...

I don't know how "long legged" the Xt engine feels but the BMW650 wasn't keen over 80 and I'd say cruising would be about 70-80.. no fun say on a rainy day trying to get back to Northern England from Le Mans in 1 day!


So what is there? a decent smooth single? Hopefully gearing and power improvements on the Tenere (? it'll be the same as the XT though, no doubt)..it looks fab apart from being hindered by lack out blacktop mile-munching prowess, which I'll want to do sometimes.

DR650, KLE650.. other (mainly US) sites have plenty of fans but we don't have these bikes over in the UK now..are they any good..The KTM 640 might do.. and even heard it can sit happily on a straight bit of tarmac all day.. but when will they stop being so cagey about the h690 and how does a newbie cope with a 3500mile service interval when my first tour of trance was already 3000miles!- not good

Transalp, now heavy, and without 21" tyre... (btw does that help lots? particulary for a newbie?)
I wish they'd make a new Super Tenere

The idea of converting a Versys or Wee strom is about as much on the cards as finding a bike of suite, but I don't want to be fettling and modifying bikes..

to be honest, I don't think it's much to ask: a middle-weight v twin (aren't twins better suited to off-road power delivery?), light enough to handle new-commers to dirt, steady enough to carry a tent and comfy/long legged enough to cruise?


PS maybe I'm being too apprehensive, weight might be less of an isuue than I thing and also the 21" wheel thing.. I plan to go on a couple of these off road training days.. need to find a recommended one but that's another topic.

Anyway, KiwiBruce, sorry to ramble on. If you find any suitable bikes ot easy ways to mod more road biased bikes, let me know!
Cheers
Kev

__________________
Go forrit! But..take it easy.
(Fazer)Kev

its a Twin
1 exhaust
Fast on road
capable off road (if your strong as shes a top heavy swine)
but FUN FUN FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your question regarding the front wheel size is a very good one, the size of the front wheel, and the corresponding front suspension set up makes a huge difference to how a bike feels on the road and off road. For example a XT660X with the 17” wheels and relatively stiff front forks is credibly confidence inspiring on the road, the strong front brake helps too, the XT660R with the 21” front wheel and softer forks will handle the rough so much better as the front wheel is larger it will roll over bumps etc much easier than the smaller 17” wheel, the softer suspension helps off road too as it absorbs more of the impact without transferring it into the handle bars the way stiffer suspension does. The XT660R might not be much slower on the road, it just won’t feel as sure footed, conversely the R model will feel much more capable off road, the thinner front tyre will be better in much or loose gravel too. I think it’s about which bike makes you smile the most, I think for me the XT660R would be ideal, it will happily cruise at 80 mph (once you get over the fact that it’s a single and feels like its working hard, in reality it’s bullet proof and will run all day everyday with the throttle wide open) However the X model just looks cooler while the Aprilia had me grinning from ear to ear, (I do love Italian twins). Aprilia have announced a 750 SMV Dorsuduro which is based on the Shiver, it has a smaller fuel tank and is claimed to be lighter, this should add up to an even bigger grin factor. The choice is still as hard as ever, many many people ride and love their XT’s, Trans alps, BMWs etc etc, for me personally BMWs just don’t do it for me, they are unquestionably great bikes just not to my taste, maybe I should ride a new one as it’s quite a few years since I rode one, but then I don’t want to add another piece to an already confusing puzzle. So Kev, it seems to me to be question of where the balance is between on road and off road performance, I know that my next statement will cause some argument but in general singles will be better off road and twins will be more relaxed on road and cover the miles more comfortably. I found riding both the Kawasaki Versys and Yamaha XT660 to be extremely valuable, the Versys won’t be as capable off road but many riders are completely happy with 17” road wheels for adventure use, equally lots of riders do huge road miles on their singles and love ever mile. Making the choice is difficult, buying thebike and racking up the miles is the easy fun bit, modern bikes are just so good it’s almost impossible to get it badly wrong, everything from R1s to postie bikes have been used successfully as adventure bikes. I/m sure others will have good advice and suggestions. Good luck in making your decision.

KiwiBruce, that ws a great post. Thanks buddy

I can understand now the basics of the front wheel size though it is a little counter-intuative for me as I have a road bicycle (large wheel diamter/thin tyres) and a mountain bike (smaller wheels and fatter tyres).

I don't have much experience to go on and that's probably why I'm so uncertain. My only "big" bike is my fazer 600.. in IL4 from Japan. For me a do-everything bike and bril (lucky) first bike.. it commutes, tours, motorways, and goes on the twisties but all on tarmac.

I've had test rides on a a few but only one bike that I now think I ought to consider for an all rounder with off road ability (650Dakar). The 1150 and 1200 are silly choices, I've come to think.
To be honest, I didn't think the handling on the Daker was all that bad but it may have had something to do with not pushing it due to the £1500 excess from teh BMW dealer. I was most struck not by the lack of oomph but 70+mph comfort and jerkyness at low revs/speeds. Therefore my thinking is a twin would be better. But maybe the XT660R handles cruising better and I've heard the engine/gearbox is slick...anyway there's no substitute for trying them though whether I get to try them off road as I intend to use is another matter.
I've tried a Multistrada, a Buell XB12Ss, KaTooM 950SM-R, the big BMWs and the F800S, but not a small v twin... and coming from a 1 big bike history which is different to any single or twin, I think I'd benfit from trying a Wee Strom or Versys as you did.
Having said that, I don't rev that high (don't have to on the fazer) as it's not really neccessary with our speed limits and engien power of even a 600 so I was at home in making the most from the various bikes I've demo'd. I;m not an expereinced rider though and didn't/don't pick up on things that are often mentioned in bike mags or by mates.
EG no fork dive felt natural and I didn't notice it being wierd; slower handling from the raked out front of teh Dakar felt as I expected; I wasn't taken aback by the lack of braking on any of the bikes I've tried... maybe I'm not attentive enough to the basics of motorcycling.. my feelings of the bikes was more biased by cockpit, comfort, engine note, practicality.. and so on.. oh well.
I'd love to try the KaTooM ADV 640/690 but it's just not possible with the numbers they sell.. no demo bikes available.. hmm.

Anyway thanks. Interesting you should think
I would've thought that a straightforward statment and it's how well the rider puts up with a single to make it bearable which is the variable aspect.

Yes, I'll have to proplery decide he road:ratio though no doubt that will change as soon as I start doing it! for now mostly tarmac (am I allowed to say that on this website)

Oh and BTW, even if you are aware and take on board what people say about BMWs being surprisingly good, they will still blow you away when you take one for a test ride but I get what you mean about not adding yet more choices.. I might have to decide before KTM release the 690 ADV!

__________________
Go forrit! But..take it easy.
(Fazer)Kev

ADVKev

Just to give me 2 pennies worth. Ive got a 06 yamaha XT660R (only had it 8weeks) and coming from a honda deauville which is a smooth twin, very much like the transalp once i started riding the XT i found it to be very snatchy on and off the throttle. For a big single its not too bad but can be a hand full at times. Messing around with the fuelling a bit helped but it is still no like a twin.

As for motorway riding many people on the .: XT660.com - The #1 XT660 Resource :. forum say they cruise at 80+mph all day and have not problems. The only thing is the R with its off road tyres dont really like any thing over 80mph as the big knobblies make the bars wiggle a bit and feel a bit wierd.

It is still a great bike, plenty of poke, and can handle its own off road or back roads. The only problems are the seat can be a bit hard after a long day in the seat, the tank will give 120miles before the light comes on at the best, and you need to add a high screen (like i have) to be comfortable on the motorway.

If your still interested or even not sign on to the above forum and it will give you masses of information to look through.

Just an update.
I have been confused and tempted by another bike by a very nice guy in a bike shop. Being bored over the hols, I dragged family to a dealer down near my Dad's in Exeter. They have looads of makes and I was mainyl there to ask when and how much for the new tenere. We chatted and it was cool although not much more than is already out there.
WE discuss other bikes, Transalp, F800 and come down to only one bike that is available now which could match the Tenere.

The Wee strom 650X.

For some reason I'd though it had 17" wheels on but the 19 would be a happy medium for me, a novice adventurer. Surely.
It's v twin would be better than a single for the reasons mentioned above esp on road and at any speed or overtaking.
It's lighter for what it is and the X comes without no ABS, a sturdy (IMHO) bash plate, hand guards that bolt on to the bar ends and a "touring" screen.

The only thing would be ground clearance although I'm sure it's more capable than I am imagining it to be and I've heard one can put long springs or forks on the front and a simple replacement shock on the rear.

I think it'll come down to these two really, not wanting a Katoom now with them not selling and being so cagey on the 690 as well as not oferring test rides and having a very short service interval. The DR's KLR's and Dakar's of this world seem outmoded now and the f800gs will cost too much for me,

Is this a wise bike to consider (the dl650x) along side a purpose built rtw 660 single?
Thank goodness I'm only having to choose between a couple of bikes, I;d be hopeless with a choice like the sportsbikers have!

__________________
Go forrit! But..take it easy.
(Fazer)Kev