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Which Bike? Comments and Questions on what is the best bike for YOU, for YOUR trip. Note that we believe that ANY bike will do, so please remember that it's all down to PERSONAL OPINION. Technical Questions for all brands go in their own forum.
Photo by Igor Djokovic, camping above San Juan river, Arizona USA

I haven't been everywhere...
but it's on my list!


Photo by Igor Djokovic,
camping above San Juan river,
Arizona USA



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  #16  
Old 2 Oct 2014
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Sounds like they are making the bike the tenere should be
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  #17  
Old 3 Oct 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endurodude View Post
This bike looks really interesting, but the company seems to have been off my radar - what's their history? How reliable are their bikes? I've looked at their site, but I'd be interested to hear from owners.
I have had four AJP Bikes the last 9 Years, the first was PR4 with a Honda licence Engine. I don't have any Problems all the time. Then i get a PR5 also with Honda license Engine (aircold), my KTM Dealer makes a mistake and so the Engine was out of order, but AJP have ever 2 Years warranty so it was no problem.
Now i have a PR5 Extreme with LC Engine, no problems....

For me the AJP PR7 was a very interessting Bike, because my KTM 640 Adventure would not be younger..... And with Yamaha Engine it will be ready for Adventure, because the Engine was not a "Race" Engine like te CCM 450 so i can get spare parts from Yamaha all over the World !

In UK i think, touratech is also a AJP Dealer.

(Sorry for my bad english !)

Last edited by slow-rider; 3 Oct 2014 at 11:02.
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  #18  
Old 3 Oct 2014
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Thanks - that all sounds great. It's looking more and more interesting. Let's hope we could have a look in the flesh at the NEC . . . . .
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  #19  
Old 3 Oct 2014
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The APJ could have potential. Certainly looks the part.

Would love to test ride it. Now that I've tested the CCM450, I know it'll be better than that.
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  #20  
Old 3 Oct 2014
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I need to ride that bike.....
__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.
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  #21  
Old 3 Oct 2014
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Looking at the pictures and specs, there's a distinct similarity with the Rebadged Aprillia X-Challenge with rallye fairing and/or ktm690: Copying the (very small) market niche leaders is a positive form of flattery, imho.

I fear that the market niche is rather small to genuinely generate a real profit for APJ. Most non cruisers/sportsbikers seem to want big ueber-sheds, not what APJ are offering.

Having said that, apparently, CCM needed 100 orders for their 450 to justify a break-even production run. I wish APJ the best of luck getting a lot more than a century.
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  #22  
Old 4 Oct 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post

Having said that, apparently, CCM needed 100 orders for their 450 to justify a break-even production run. I wish APJ the best of luck getting a lot more than a century.
Just wondering where the market is for bikes like either the CCM or the APJ?

How many people here who are planning something substantial would start with a new bike straight out of the showroom without much of a track record, mod it with luggage and various other bits and head off? Most people seem to use some tried and tested design, or at least start with one and personalise it based on either their or other peoples experience. There's a long list of must do mods for the DRZ for example to make them suitable for long distance travel. And many of the bikes seem to start their overlanding life secondhand.

If, as a group, we're fairly conservative with what we'll use maybe it's not surprising that the niche manufacturers look at the use once and throw it away competition world for their sales. Maybe some of their castoffs eventually get used for overlanding but CCM or APJ have to sell them in the first place.
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  #23  
Old 5 Oct 2014
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I've just had an email reply from Craig Whitney, Business manager for AJP motorcycles. Apparently the PR7 is due early 2016 (he says there's lots of hoop jumping between now and then) and will be around the £8k mark. Perhaps they might bring it to HUBB 2015?!
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  #24  
Old 6 Oct 2014
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Here are the last Information about the AJP PR7 from FB:


PR7 | Off-road adventure at it’s best
6. Oktober 2014 um 18:54
Taking into account the avalanche of questions (here on FB, but also through email and phone), and not being able to reply in a personalized way to each of them, in this “note” we try to answer to the most frequently asked questions:
*
- PR7 will be street legal.
-Aware of the market evolution, AJP decided that it’s new model should gather the best of both worlds, giving the travelers and adventurers an alternative that represents all the DNA and know-how of the brand in the off-road, a bike capable of a great handling and riding pleasure in the toughest terrains, but also able to provide comfort, good mileage and versatility.
-This is possible because AJP developed for the PR7 the new generation of the proved hybrid frame made of aluminium and steel, now even lighter, compact and rigid, using two lightweight twin spars bolted to the compact steering head that is used also as an oil reservoir.
-With 1532mm of wheelbase, 300mm of ground clearance and 26,5 degrees of rake, the AJP PR7 is a must in terms of suspensions, showing a sturdy Marzocchi inverted front fork with full adjustability, 48mm inner tubes and a generous stroke of 300mm. That’s why we say this is a real trail bike with real off-road heritage. On the rear, the cast aluminium swinging arm is another trademark of the brand and it’s progressive linkage takes full advantage of the piggy-back rear Ohlins shock, giving 280mm of travel to the axel.
-Brakes are well dimensioned with a 300mm front disc operated by a two piston caliper, and a 240mm rear rotor, allowing for a good power on the tarmac, but specially ease of use and a great feel on the dirt.
-Overall dimensions are compact and everybody knows how important is to have a bike where you feel at home when riding on your foot. This is possible because like in all other AJP models, the fuel tank is located under the seat, creating a narrow line but also mass centralization and not
-reducing the tank capacity, with a total of 17 liters of the precious liquid. The fuel cap will be located under the seat.
-Estimated dry weight will be under 155kg.
-The engine used to power the PR7 is the proved Minarelli single cylinder four stroke with a capacity of 659,7cc, liquid cooled and electronic fuel injection via a 44mm Mikuni throttle body. Peak power of 48hp is obtained @ 6000rpm and with 58Nm of torque @ 5500rpm this is a power unit capable of good acceleration from low to middle rpm, an immediate punch that transforms all obstacles into amusement but without compromising traction or the overall balance of the bike.
-The AJP PR7 will be available in the end of 2015 / early 2016.
-The price is yet to be defined, depending on the evolution to the final product.
*

Last edited by slow-rider; 7 Oct 2014 at 20:51.
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  #25  
Old 7 Oct 2014
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The fuel cap will be located under the seat.

That's going to make for some careful loading!
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  #26  
Old 7 Oct 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endurodude View Post
The fuel cap will be located under the seat.

That's going to make for some careful loading!
I was going to comment on this as well, but got distracted yesterday.

I think this is a really stupid idea. Most soft luggage these days is throw over (the seat). It'd be a major PITA to remove all the luggage, just to fuel up. As the APJ is borrowing design ideas from the BMW G650x and KTM690, it should consider having access to the fuel cap from the side like on the Beemer, where the luggage doesn't need to be removed at the fuel station.

Last edited by chris; 7 Oct 2014 at 23:41.
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  #27  
Old 7 Oct 2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endurodude View Post
The fuel cap will be located under the seat.

That's going to make for some careful loading!
Not a good thing
3 months/8000km in Vietnam with throwover panniers on a lift the seat to fill the tank 125 Honda Future. No big drama just very inconvenient.
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  #28  
Old 8 Oct 2014
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Originally Posted by backofbeyond View Post
Just wondering where the market is for bikes like either the CCM or the APJ?
I wondered the same ... I'm thinking rally racers would be top of the list, or perhaps a few heavily sponsored "professional ADV riders" (a la Ewan/Charlie)? Perhaps APJ will follow up with a travel specific bike? What I see in the pics above is a pure race bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by backofbeyond View Post
How many people here who are planning something substantial would start with a new bike straight out of the showroom without much of a track record, mod it with luggage and various other bits and head off? Most people seem to use some tried and tested design, or at least start with one and personalise it based on either their or other peoples experience. There's a long list of must do mods for the DRZ for example to make them suitable for long distance travel. And many of the bikes seem to start their overlanding life secondhand.
Spot On!
While I certainly applaud APJ's pioneering efforts, I have to agree with above comments. When it comes down to it, very few travelers are going to spend £8 to £10K on a new, unproven travel/adventure bike and end up as Beta testers for AJP.

Rally Racers are another story. They may have sponsors willing to pony up the cash to support a Race bike. But to compete in Dakar, they'd have to build a 450 version. But plenty of other rallies worldwide that allow 600cc bikes. Racing is the best advertising there is.

It appears AJP are spending A LOT of extra money making their bike Street legal and to get it "type approved" for sale in EU and elsewhere. It will add to cost, add weight and the bike will have to have basic street bike equip. a race bike does not require: heavier battery, higher output stator, more complete and robust wiring loom, mirrors, approved exhaust, Emissions equipment, robust sub frame for pillion, EU approved lighting/signals and on and on it goes.

If the main customer base turns out to be Rally Racers, then why sink all the money into making a street legal bike at all? The machine would have more street cred once it's been out Rally Racing a few years. The "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday" motto may apply here to some extent. If things go well ... then they could consider a "Street version" of the bike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by backofbeyond View Post
If, as a group, we're fairly conservative with what we'll use maybe it's not surprising that the niche manufacturers look at the use once and throw it away competition world for their sales. Maybe some of their castoffs eventually get used for overlanding but CCM or APJ have to sell them in the first place.
... Yes! Conservative ... and Cheap! (oh, sorry, make that "underfunded")
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  #29  
Old 10 Oct 2014
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you would be surprise to know that on most rallies you need a registered bike! And I don't know how it is in other countries, but in Switzerland to register a bike it must be street legal. Of course you can remove all the stuff after passing the bike control.

And that's the reason why the 660 Rally KTM has not so much value, because it's almost impossible to have a street legal one in Switzerland, in opposite to the 690 Rally, that is street legal.
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  #30  
Old 11 Oct 2014
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You have Off Road Enduro Rallies in Switzerland?
That's news to me, but I do remember when they held a ISDE rally in Germany and the whole event was on Pavement!

ISDE rules (pretty international) call for a working headlight (Need not be DOT or EU approved) and a tail light. That's about it. Your exhaust must not be too loud and only approved tyres are allowed. NONE would be considered "Street legal" but for rallies, in most countries, local traffic laws are most ALWAYS waived for rally racers, including for the Dakar event. On rallies they only use roads for "liason" sections and riders are supposed to do speed limit or below. Time penalties if you go too fast.
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