You know it must be a bad'n when you don't have the usual:

"How dare you slag off my BMW, it's the best bike in the world"

Crikey !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

I had so many faults on my initial F650GS twin that after 22,000 miles BMW part funded a replacement. I now use a Tenere as my main travel bike so the replacement F650GS has only done 4,000 miles in the past 18 months.

Following the bad press with F800S and ST problems, BMW did itself no favours with the rushed launch of the F650/800GS with a resulting abysmal QA and attempts by the company to duck warranty responsibility on a whole range of problems.

Although I almost choke writing the words, much of that is in the past, and if you were choosing a new bike right now the situation is now much better. Nevertheless if I were embarking on a RTW trip with a F650/800GS I would do quite a lot of preventative work (even on a new bike) starting with replacing the sub-standard chain and extracting and repacking wheel and steering head bearings. I would also attempt to resolve the side stand issue through custom engineering. And then there's the other 'design flaws' remaining such as the hard-as-a-plank seat, low screen, blah, blah...

Here's a link to threads on some of these topics on UKGSer.

It will be interesting to see how the Tiger XC gets on with hard-arse journeys. If it really does well it could stick a stake through the heart of the F800GS.

Tim

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Exactly, Ted. It's clearly a stonking piece of sh1t as a travel bike and even the owner's aren't disputing it!

Ha ha ha. I nearly bloody bought one as well but thought I'd wait until the beta testers had put it through it's paces - glad I did too.

C'mon gents, a bit more unemotional and balanced commentary please.

As the proud owner of a BMW, and a Suzuki and a Honda (and formerly a Kawaski) I find the strong emotions associated with specific brand loyalty and brand hatred endlessly fascinating and somewhat perplexing.

For sure any new model is going to have teething problems until all the manufacturing issues and assembly issues are worked out. Having worked in the manufacturing industry that produces things that go into automobiles, heavy trucks, and a very small amount of motorcycles, I've seen it firsthand.

It's an incredibly complex process, and that's why you see huge companies with industry leading quality control histories (eg. Toyota) still have recalls. It is a process that is impossible to perfect. Multiple suppliers produce items at various times using different inputs and different personnel. Conditions vary, and therefore so does quality.

Over time, you are able to identify and adjust for recurring issues. Unfortunately, there are always sporadic issues that will crop up due to a batch of substandard inputs or workmanship. Some companies are better at dealing with both these things than others. But make no mistake, all companies are challenged by this as everyone has been forced to move some or all manufacturing to low cost centers.

Needless to say, industry insiders are rightfully skeptical of sweeping generalizations claiming that any one vehicle or motorbike is either perfect or a piece of junk. Obtaining authentic performance data that is verifiable and statistically relevant is extremely difficult.

One big barrier is owner bias. A person buys one vehicle and it is either good or bad based on their perception of their experience. 100% (1/1) of his sample therefore proves his conclusion. In his mind, the evidence is irrefutable, and understandably that is why you get black and white opinions.

That's not to say they are incorrect, it is just that the individual experiences need to be extrapolated over a much larger data set to glean any really meaningful conclusions. Once meaningful conclusions can be determined though, quality control issues are costly, and cost erodes profits so in general manufacturs are very incented to identify and correct true quality issues.

(And if you think that bike owners are passionate and opinionated folks, try sorting through a truckers feedback when his $250K investment that also provides all the income for his family isn't running perfectly.)

To repeat my previous comments on the specific bike the OP asked about, it like a lot of other bikes, is perfectly fine for the ride you are planning.

There are a some of items that need addressing before you head out. If you want you can read through the chatter draw meaningful conclusions as to what faults seem to be well known and replace as necessary.

As for me, I bought mine overseas before they were available here so rode it from TDF to Alaska prior to the avaialbility of spare parts for it in the Americas. I wasn't too worried about it. It has gone through a fairly broad diversity of warm to hot weather conditions well and the next year I rode it up to the Canadian Arctic (Tuktoyuktuk). It doesn't start great colder than -15C but ran well up to -28.5C (much better than the operator). It has had the usual warranty gasket and hose replacements, otherwise it has performed as well and been pretty much as reliable as my KLR and DL. To each his own though. Happy planning.

Ditto for me.

__________________
One Lucky Dude..


[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]


www.worldwideride.ca

Oh, it was a bit of TFIC, chaps, don't worry. But the F800 series have had rather a lot of problems compared to, say, the V-strom 650, right? It will be interesting to see how many issues the new Tiger 800s have, but having previously owned a first release Triumph I would trust my cash to that rather than the Beemer. But then I'm British, so what do you expect?

Hey Dano,

Thanks, hope to see you in Nakusp. By the sounds of the doom sayers, we'll have to arrange to trailer the bikes there or risk certain death by spontaneous combustion


Hey Doc,

Well you must know from your days on the sunshine coast that Canucks can only aspire to be as eminently thoughtful and unbiased as your average British Triumph owner A bit of home country bias is certainly acceptable though, we have to make due with secretly pining over the Can-Am Spyder...


Ride safe.

For an example of the scope of the problem check out post #56 on this thread where even the chain manufacturer admitted there were known problems that BMW were denying. The text of the emails highlights that it took 15 months to decide to fit a stronger chain on the bike. This however hasn't totally fixed the problem.

__________________
"For sheer delight there is nothing like altitude; it gives one the thrill of adventure
and enlarges the world in which you live," Irving Mather (1892-1966)

Hilarious. probably from one of the goons who ride around Guilford in full Charley Boringman gear, on the way to Waitrose-do you really need 2 zegas and a top box for Pimms??

My F800GS is currently on 23000 miles. First owner bought it new in 08 and rode it to Cape town. Only fault was the clutch burning out on the way.

Having fitted new chain and sprockets before he left didn't suffer that fault. He'd also fitted jubilee clips to the coolant hose, so didn't have that problem either.

I bought it at 8500 miles, and rode it to Morocco. Was faultless for me, including one stint of 828 miles in one day.

Since then, it's had a new rear wheel bearing, and a new clutch when the nut dropped off the rod - another well documented fault. Luckily both were repaired under warranty, and despite those incidents love the bike to bits - would happily take it round the world.

Ted,
As you know I am riding RTW on an F650 twin and have had no trouble so far it has now done about 18000km many thru the crap rides in Africa, I upgraded the suspension before I left and I still have the original chain and everything else.
However I don't go along with the theory of buying an older bike as they are easy to fix as one thing I observed on my travels thus far is that most people on older bikes were indeed doing just that, and if I recall you had to spend quite a bit of time at Jjs repairing your older bike. I have just spent another week at Jjs and noticed the work shop full with KTMs & a couple of DR650s (incidentally my favourite bike) but the BMWs were all parked up. I think this thread is turned to a bashing BMW topic & you only every hear the bad stories not the good, of course there will be lemons in every bike but it annoys me when the owners of BMWs are sniggered at, but I suppose they can console themselves by going to count there money !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My 2 cents
Paul

__________________
....rather Die Living.....than Live Dying !
www.globetrekkers.net.au

I agree. Older doesn't mean better,but it often does mean simpler. The repairs I did to my 2003 DRZ were changing chain & sprockets, getting a new tyre and having my home made racks welded after a crash. The bike was fine and still is

I don't think this is a BMW bashing thread... Just bashing the small minded folk who refuse, point blank, that their mega bucks bells and whistles bike are more suited to riding up and down beach front cafes than anything else. You are not one of those folk.....

BTW. I do not hate BMW's at all. I hold them in the same esteem as Ducati, Aprilia, Moto Guzzi, KTM etc etc. They are all capable of making fantastic motorcycles (and often do), but they sadly often chose to spend the R&D money on flashy marketing rather than engineering when it comes to some of their models.

__________________
Did some trips.
Rode some bikes.
Fix them for a living.
Can't say anymore.

Ah Ted, how I do enjoy your posts! Please don't hold back though, tell us what you really think

As much fun as it can be to wind people up, I don't believe that anyone would truly think that such disparate manufacturers as BMW, Ducati, Aprilia, Moto Guzzi, KTM can be grouped together in meaningful way. They are such different companies from different countries with different corporate cultures with different strengths and weaknesses that any attempt to broadly paint them with the same brush doesn't result in any easily drawn conclusions.

And I know that you know this, but even light hearted bashing of folks as small minded if they refuse to see the world your way...although good for a chuckle, could be perceived by some to be small minded.

Doesn't it seem reasonable that the reality is that some of the higher priced bikes such as BMW are actually very well suited to long distance touring but they are also attractive for different reasons to urban folks who just ride it down to the corner cafe on Sundays? I certainly think so.

As the very loose poll here on HU shows and also based on all the overland bikers I have run into on a few continents, there are a heck of a lot of different bikes out there including a ton of BMWs as well as plenty of bikes you don't see discussed here very much such as KTM. We all have the choice of either believing that the owners knew what they are doing in researching, buying and riding their bikes and made good choices for themselves, or that they didn't.

Based on my experience, whatever the bike, they all seem to function fairly well with different, easily researched, issues that the owner planned around or dealt with on the road. Some were better than others in different ways. At the end of the day, bikes in general are so well built compared to not so long ago, that almost any bike is rarely the limiting the factor in travelling the world and seeking adventure, the limiting factor is usually us and our willingness to push ourselves and put up with discomfort.


P.S. If you do end up doing the Yukon, there are a few good shake out paddles you can do here in B.C. beforehand. You're welcome to drop by and borrow my canoe and gear to break in those old muscles before the big trip.