Anyone have any experience of these?

Witham Tenders

I haven't ridden one myself but I have seen a lot when I've raced enduros organised by the forces.

They are bloody heavy things but built strong. I think the design ethos was "why use one piece of metal when we can fit three or four in the same place"

I get the impression that they are over-sprung on the rear. I've followed a few and they bounce all over the place on the rough stuff. Maybe a sussy re-work would be in order.

They must be tough though to be sqaddie proof and I've seen them fitted with front & rear paniers. You could always put your tent in the gun holder

I think this is an objective review of the pros and cons of the Harley-D (but "real" H-D owners don't like to admit who made this bike!):-
RealClassic.co.uk: Harley-Davidson MT350E

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Dave

Thanks for the info. Might be worth looking at as a winter hack if the price is right.

There is a lot of information about these bikes on this site.
MT Riders Club Forum
The 350 is a very sturdy bike, well built, reliable when maintained properly and a very capable luggage carrier. The 350 is a bit underpowered but does come with disk brakes and electric start (as well as a kickstart)
The 500 Armstrong is an older model, with drum brakes and no electric start, but otherwise very similiar.
Armstrong were supplying the 500 to the army when Harley took over the manufacture and they continued with basically the same design.
The Rotax engines are virtually bullet proof and were also used in CCMs, Aprillia, MZs to name a few. They have the advantage that all the Rotax engines in the range, 350,500.560.604,640 have the same physical dimensions and are interchangeable, with one drawback that an electric start can't be fitted to a 500 frame without a bit of cutting and welding to the front frame member.
It's now a popular upgrade to fit a larger engine to the 350 chassis.
The bikes are heavy for any serious off-road work, but they are ideally suited to dual-purpose use and green-laning and certainly no heavier than many of the more popular adventure style bikes.
Withams are well known ex-army surplus auctioneers who sell these bikes without any preparation from £400 upwards. You may be lucky or you may get one which has parts missing and needs a full rebuild. Force motorcycles in the midlands, Ivy Leigh in Liverpool and LMS also from the midlands will sell them reconditioned with a warranty, but they are nearer £2000.
Privately the good ones go for around £1500.
I would happily set off on an extended trip with mine. In fact that's why I bought it. I've had it now for nearly 2 years and I'm currently in the process of fitting a 640 engine to it.
It's got no chrome on it to go rusty, no exposed aluminum to corrode, no shiny painwork to go dull. It doesn't get washed or cleaned for months. It looks scruffy and cheap so doesn't stand out, but it's mechanically sound.

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If you think you are too small to make a difference you have never spent the night with a mosquito.

Hmm, the concept itself sounds great but I'd be a little wary of leaving it painted khaki green and the trying to cross borders in some of the more militarily sensitive regions of the world.

Suspected mercenary on a bike anyone?

Garry from Oz.

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Garry from Oz - powered by Burgman

I had a similar thought, but the prices that I have seen for MT350s in good condition have been too much, IMO, for a 10-12 year old bike: it may be that they are in too good a condition, being for collection purposes/restored rather than for riding!

Does anyone rate those forward panniers - the ones attached to the frame just behind the front wheel?

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Dave

I certainly do! Keeps the weight low down and forward, I carry my tools in the bottom of one and my lock/chain in the other. Give some weather protection and a tremendous carrying capacity when used with rear panniers as well. Also give protection to the bike if it falls. They are reasonably light when empty, but flexible and strong.
They get in the way a bit when green-laning in muddy ruts, but then so would any panniers.

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If you think you are too small to make a difference you have never spent the night with a mosquito.

A gaggle of MTs on a day out:-
YouTube - MTRC Northern Section Rideout Dec 07
Mines the one with the white tank

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If you think you are too small to make a difference you have never spent the night with a mosquito.

I definitely wouldn't spend £2k on one. The one I posted the link to was £500 which I think is reasonable for what is effectively a "rat bike".

Looked up a couple of websites on them and one road test said it had that "I don't care if I scratch your new Mercedes" look about it. Would make traffic jams look like the parting of the red sea .

I guess that about sums it up. £500 will get you a ratbike (with potential if you want to spend time and money on it). 2K should get you a properly sorted one which should look and perform like any other bike worth 2K.

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If you think you are too small to make a difference you have never spent the night with a mosquito.

I have two Can-Ams a twin shocker made in Canada and a single shocker made by Armstrong in England, a KTM made in Austria and an ATK made in the U.S.A. Why? Because of the Rotax air cooled single.
The first one I got was the Armstrong built Can-Am 500 Sonic mx bike. I don't mx but we ride trails up in the hills in Kentucky and it never let me down. Once in Ohio I heard a noise while on the trail but it was running fine and we were on our way back to the truck anyway so I carried on. On investigagation I found the bolt holding the cam pulley had backed out and was rubbing the cover. It had wallowed out some so I replaced the pulley and belt and was good to go the next weekend. That and a broken chain were my only issues in over 10 years.
The rest of the bikes were picked up at cut rate prices as I found them. The newest the ATK is electric start and street leagal so I'll licence it for a bare bones come what may dual-sport. And if I ever come across a Rotax powered army bike or MZ or Matchless cheap I'll bring that home too.

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ride,smile,repeat as nessasary

Harleyrider,
Interesting about the panniers & thanks for the feedback. I have never seen another bike with that type of design for hard panniers - a kind of development of petrol tank soft bags (the ones that hang off the sides, not a tank bag as such). What's the volume - can you get much in them?

As for the Rat bike - fair enough, if it is what someone wants. However, those I have seen riding such machines have put in a lot of effort to make it a Ratter in the first place, probably spending a few ££ along the way.

My thought is those buying a cheaper MT350, very likely direct from one of the auctions/sales, would prefer to do work on it themselves, thereby getting all of those benefits of ownership that have been listed elsewhere. Yes, there are dealers in the UK who will take one from the forces, do it up including registering it and MOT etc etc, and they need to by paid for this: they are a business after all.
I'm still not convinced that it adds up to a £2000 bike for what is still over 10 years old. The Mil KTM thread is interesting, for price alone.

Cheers,

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Dave

Used to have one of these!
SOLID! With a bit of a weight penalty but did a fair bit of green laning on it and was not too weighty.
The Delorto carb my mate had on his seemd to give better starting, altough I never did get used to the left hand kick start.
Engines are great and squaddie proof with a low comp ratio and belt drive (which if it were to snap the piston misses the valves at their full extention Force MC's told me once) cam.
I saw one on ebay earlier today at around the £500 mark if you re interested!
All the best.
Dave.

A '85 MT 500 with 30,000 miles and MOT 'til Aug just sold for £460.

There's another listed under Armstrong, similar age but fewer miles, starting at £500.