Hello fellow hubbers,
I'm looking at a few m/c this week and they are: BMWs, KLRs, KTMs & the DRs/Stroms. The ages are ranging from 97' to new and the size of cc's are 625 to 1100. Ideally, it would be wonderful to have a bike custom built(may happen one day); however, other priorities seem to get on the front burner. I have a couple of bikes I could ship overseas, but the shipping is way more than what the bikes are worth. Renting is another option available and I have corresponded with a pleasant outfit in Germany. This has been an interesting thread to read/website, with lots of opinions on different bikes. Like the last post,"Get one and Ride It".

Cheers hubbers, sincerely rio_perros
Sorry Grant, I made an error here so I deleted the urls. Cheers and thanks

------------- edited by Grant to remove the email address link above-------------------
Comment:
No problem, though we do have a list of known good shippers on the Links page. ALso DON'T put email addresses in any webpage ever, as it exposes them to the spambots that just love plain text email addresses to add to their spam database.
---------------end Grant's edit-----------------

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"The only thing that needs constant adjustment on a motorcycle is, the biological linkage between the handgrips and the footpegs" <*)))>{

Mollydog,

Actually AliBaba has been here since 2001, longer than you. BUT length of time is irrelevant, I don't play favourites - what is said is what matters, and all those involved in this little ruckus will receive an infraction, giving them points leading to eventual banning if they keep it up.

I fully understand the desire to smack someone in the nose - but on the web we have to be a little more careful about words and their intent than if it's in person. It's MUCH harder to see the grin behind the words, or the joking manner, so it's easy to get pissed off - so it takes MORE sensitivity and restraint and tolerance than usual.

I really don't want to close this thread but will if it stays off track. I might also delete all the offensive posts.

Comments from anyone? Delete all the irrelevant and annoying posts or leave it? It's your board, it's up to you all to decide where the line is drawn.

I'm pretty tolerant, but this is on the edge for me.

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Grant Johnson
Seek, and ye shall find.
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Inspiring, Informing and Connecting travellers since 1997!
www.HorizonsUnlimited.com

Grant,

I'd like to think that it's a good example of well meaning individuals getting drawn off topic a bit too much. Good reminder for all, I'd keep it as is.

Cheers.

Grant,

Well done and thanks for starting to put an end to this. In response to your question re: keep the thread and/or delete the poor posts.

Keep the thread and the posts - as it has been useful to me in the past and at the least has been entertaining.

I agree that this has gone too far and despite a number of participants trying to defuse this again and again it seems that the consistent culprits keep coming back and insighting more trouble.

I would suggest to them that if they continue to make posts and numerous!! people repeatedly suggest that they are being biased (Thanks Margus) or information is misleading or incorrect... that they of their own volition should be man enough to think a little self reflection is in order.

That said - I too am tired of it all and want to enjoy the thread - fireworks and all but when it gets to be like this it just makes me sad for all concerned.

So - I leave it up to you Grant as I feel a guest on YOUR HUBB and will suggest to ban the offenders if you think they get out of hand and will respect that. Shame it has to come to that...

D

GJ, First, thanks for getting my gloves back to me from Rwanda- I knew you were good, but wow! Second, I don't think it's wrong to delete certain posts. If someone were to post nude pics of children here, I hope they'd be deleted and the poster banned. Name calling and crashing though threads here just seems wrong. People wonder about places like Africa, sometimes they're afraid, etc. But there is always more hostility on this website than I have found in my travels. Perhaps there are a few here who don't trully know the road- what it is to depend TOTALLY on others- strangers in fact. Most of us here have never actually met, why the anger? If an HU meeting went like this, we'd all be Kung Fu fighting at the Copper Canyon! I was recently accused of "gladhanding" on a post here- seems strange. You've ridden in Malawi- remember that? Warm smiles and welcomes, wow. If this site can maintain the good-will of the "average" African- we'll be rockin.' I'm disappointed to see a thread deteriorate to the point someone is talking about breaking noses- mine has been broken twice and it's no fun! Ride safe, Hook. (By the way, with regards to this thread, take out the trash brother!)

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I was desperate to go on this trip this year but I got no reply from Nick despite various emails and lots of phone calls

Hopefully will manage to come in 2008 if I can get hold of the bugger!

I've got a 1200GSAdv specially for the venture, haha - hope it's still working before we set off eh?

Cas

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Puppygames! For when you're not riding

Quoted by Dodger "2006 BMW produced just over 100,000 bikes
Honda sold 330,000 bikes in N America
In 2005 Suzuki produced over 3 million bikes and ATVs"

Sorry for the statement as I did not meant that it should be taken so literary, what I meant to say is that in the same class much more BMW's are sold, how much more I don't know but especially as far as the GS is concerned they sell loads more than any other make Japanese or European.

Quoted by Dodger "New Beemers fail at an alarming rate for such an expensive machine."

I am not aware of alarming rates but I am sure they might have problems from time to time like any other manufacturer.

Quoted by Dodger "BMW have followed the old Harley method of instilling brand loyalty and camaraderie by dressing their riders and organising social events for them."

Harley Davidson sells accessories for their riders to make them look good, most of these items offer no protection for the rider. BMW provide proper rider gear and have some of the best stuff on the market for example the Rally suit that is even popular with a lot of riders not riding on BMW's and especially very popular on the Dakar rally.

Quoted by Dodger "Which is great if you want that kind of thing."

I base my selection for gear on two things, price and quality with quality always first to the extent that I will rather not have it at all if I can't afford it. It just so happen that even compared to a lot of other makes I almost always come back to buy the BMW product for its quality and good design.

"But does that make BMW a better bike ?"[/QUOTE]

I have never said BMW's are better than other bike makes, I said they are good bikes as I believe there are other makes also producing good bikes and some even more capable than the GS for RTW tours.

Thanks for acting on this thread Grant, I am fairly new to the site but not to world travelling and I was shocked to see that fellow rider/traveller were so much into bashing and lately name calling instead of posting usefull information. I always enjoyed reading the site and advised many friends to use it in order to plan thier next or first trip. I now owned a BMW 1200gs , a KTM 450SXF, a XR650R , they are all great bikes but they all have thier own defaults,after owning over 20 bikes I can say that the best bike is either the next one or the one you sold few year ago (and forgot all problem she gave you).I think this is not the place for bashing or insulting anyone , if BMW is trying to get riders to meet and get recognized why not , I will not complain to see more regular people enjoy motorcycle as HD did with thier marketting system.Keeping the post is up to you as I have nothing bad to say about the site.

Hendi

Please don't edit/remove postings, it is not in the spirit of debate
Keep it real, not personal . Deep breath, altogether now


Trophymick

It took me awhile to read the whole thread and boil it down to the important points.

What I have interpreted from all of this is that if we all ride triumph's built in Japan while wearing german made clothes the world will be a wonderful place.

Works for me

Rick

I think many people get their panties in a wad way too easily.

Remember 'Leave it to Beaver'?
It was always more fun when Wally did something wrong.

gsworkshop , thanks for the reply .
I think it is important to read the whole of a post and comment on it as a whole .Dissecting the post line by line and adding your comments dilutes the message I was tyring to get across and twists the meaning .
You are leaping to conclusions and answering questions that I have never asked !
Any way for the record , I wasn't criticising BMW clothing and I believe it is very good [ but expensive ] ,my comments were to show that it is a way of instilling brand loyalty .[ Buying into the lifestyle maybe ? ]

The big BMWs are expensive bikes here in Canada and if I was looking to buy a new bike in the large capacity "Adventure tourer " bracket ,I am afraid to say that I would want a better reliability record . This is my personal opinion based on value for money and I didn't gain that opinion on a whim .
You have even alluded to the big bikes being a poor choice for RTW .

HOWEVER , like you, I would most certainly rebuild an older bike to my own specification for RTW and be confident in it's ability to get me where I want to go ,[ I have less confidence in my own ability to last the course! ]

It would be interesting to see the sales figures for the "adv touring " bikes and see which manufacturer outsells the other , maybe somebody has those figures available , certainly BMW are quick to admit that their 1200 gs is their best seller .

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"When you come to a fork in the road ,take it ! When you come to a spoon in the road ,take that also ."

Grant, definitely leave the thread and the posts - it has been very interesting to see how emmotive this subject is to many people. I haven't seen the like on any other tech forum, but that could be because I don't visit them so often. As we always say, any bike will do - just get out there. I wish I were able to follow this ethic though!

I have to confess to being fed up of the BMW hype here in the UK, but I would stress that I don't think BMWs are poor bikes, just that there are many, many others that will do the job as well, and sometimes better. Perhaps my own perspective is clouded by the this hype. As Mollydog said, the motorcycle press here is only just waking up to the idea that touring by bike can mean something other than 'conquering continents in a day'. I think most of us here would question why on Earth anyone would want to do that - why not use a car, or stay at home and watch the world go by on TV. You would be as much in it as you would on a hyper-tourer.

The idea that the current GS series is the 'best' there is for an RTW because it can blast continents, but still tackle rough stuff is fine, but seems a strange concept to me given that my own preference would be [I]not[I] to cover vast distances in a day. If that's what a big GS can do, I don't need it. If that is what you want to do, then perhaps the GS is for you, regardless of reliability and build quality issues. So buy one and enjoy.

Grant, you'll have noticed (being based for a while in London) that the British bike press still cannot square the idea of touring by bike with the idea of not doing so at warp factor nine. Perhaps when they have grown up and stopped viewing motorcycles as toys, but as what they are - a form of transport - the GS worship will stop. Then I'll be putting a deposit down on a BMW, perverse person that I am!

There is such a vast range of preferences out there, and whether you want to plod on an Enfield and do 50 miles a day but get the most of the country your in, or whether you want to tick as many of those countries off as you can in a month, that's up to you. The last thing we need are motorcycle marque evangelists. Whatever you ride, enjoy it for what it is!

Respect to you all.

Stig

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Tall men see everyone else's bald patch but their own.......

So after all of this - here are a few questions.

I keep reading (the HUBB) about the bad service record of the BMW's or at least the mythically incorrect one - etc. but I have yet to see in any of these posts any reference to any real data - except for Margus pointing to the 10,000 MCN rider strong survey that put the BMW squarely at the top overall and in many cat's.

I agree that the hype makes me cringe and the cost is huge in comparison (I own a 1200gs) but I can't find any "bad" service data on the net anywhere or hard data in these posts. I also figure that I can't afford much if any of the clothing - but when I see a Paris Dakar rider on a KTM with a BMW jacket it tells me something -- and they are chump change compared to RUKKA.

So - prove me wrong - other than someones experience with a buddy who happens to be a mechanic at a single shop - or a discussion over a .... someone show me the data. Then we will either bust the myth or prove it - at least to my little mind. Lets determine what exactly the myth speaks about... And, I can either walk tall to the garage or slump down sullenly as I expect the thing to break at every turn...

The next thing is a point to share - I admit to partaking in a BMW service day or suspension tech night (Roast beef dinner and talking bikes - is not too bad) but the interesting thing about it is - surrounded by all the glass, and polished metal and fancy lobby... (which I think is just wrong for a bike shop) when I go out to leave - all I see are a mish-mash of old pick-up trucks and hatch-backs and mostly North American cars - it struck me that the kind of people who ride BMW's (in my experience) are not the kind of people who DRIVE them... put a smile on my face. But - again that is just my little bit of BMW bike world isn't it...

I had a look for failure-rate statistics and as far as I can tell the manufacturers don't publish them, nor is there anything comparable to, say, the Consumer Reports surveys for autos. The Ride etc. surveys are small and self-reporting and worthless IMHO. Perhaps the figures can be found elsewhere or requested from the manufacturers, but I'm a biker, not a journalist

The best info I found for putting some objectivity into this argument is here for quality and here for recalls.

The first has Suzuki "among the best" with regards to quality (5 out of 5) vs "better than most" (4/5) for BMW.

The second site is for recalls and showed a lot of recalls for BMW models and few for Suzuki (none shown for the DL1000) which, of course, has many more models in it's line-up. Some recalls are ridiculous (the wrong contact number in an owners manual, for the VFR, is one example) and of course manufacturers will avoid making a recall if they think they can get away with it, but it makes interesting reading.

So, if someone asked me to say which of the DL1000 or R1200 is more reliable, and to be objective about it, I'd say the Suzuki. At the pub talking over a , I'd say the same. And if I had to put money down on one, I'd choose the Suzuki.

That's my 2 cents; if you like your bike whatever it is then that's great. Don't call me a liar or threaten to break my nose...

James

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James Courtier